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Old 02-01-2011, 05:13 PM
 
138 posts, read 139,386 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
the bible never started or set out to be one book,it is many books,emporer constantine decided to put it into one book,and decided which books to put into it.

Read my comment #18 about the prophecy in Daniel 2: 36-45. This prophecy was written about 1,000 years before Christianity was started by the Roman government.
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Old 02-01-2011, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjhulk View Post
Read my comment #18 about the prophecy in Daniel 2: 36-45. This prophecy was written about 1,000 years before Christianity was started by the Roman government.
I cant respond to you DM because you have blocked DMs.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:49 PM
 
Location: St. Joseph Area
6,237 posts, read 8,251,906 times
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Quote:
Originally posted by ahigherway
Hi everyone!

Just a quick question (actually 4) to all of you who say that the Bible is our "instruction book."

If we are supposed to follow the examples of the early church, then:

1) why do you preach being "born again" when the early church didn't?

2) why do you preach hellfire and brimstone, when the early church didn't?

3) why do you preach "accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior" when the early church didn't?

4) why do you tell people to ask God for forgiveness for their sins and say a "sinner's prayer" when the early church didn't?

Hoping for good explanations...

Blessings to all,
brian
Hi, ahigherway,

Well, I'm not a fundamentalist, but I do adhere to the historic teachings of the Christian faith. So here's my response to each of your questions.

1. John 3:3-7:
Jesus: "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
Nicodemus: How can a man be born when he is old? Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"
Jesus: "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birht to spirit. "You should not be surprised at my saying, 'you must be born again'

2. Jesus made references to hell or (metaphorically) to things being burned up in his parables. These I take as obvious references to places of eternal torment and suffering, whether or not there's real fire there.

3. This I'll grant to an extent. The early church didn't say it that way exactly, but submission to Christ's lordship and adherance to the apostles' teachings was key to becoming Christian. To me all of that and "accepting Christ" mean essentially the same thing.

4. Acts 2:38 "And Peter replied, "repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit". Clearly part of becoming a christian meant asking forgiveness for your sins. Jesus seemed to say that this was pretty essential too. No, the early church didn't have a sinner's prayer. But the early church did believe in salvation through Jesus, and that is what they preached.
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Old 02-02-2011, 02:45 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,111,650 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mackinac81 View Post
Hi, ahigherway,

Well, I'm not a fundamentalist, but I do adhere to the historic teachings of the Christian faith. So here's my response to each of your questions.

1. John 3:3-7:
Jesus: "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
Nicodemus: How can a man be born when he is old? Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"
Jesus: "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birht to spirit. "You should not be surprised at my saying, 'you must be born again'

2. Jesus made references to hell or (metaphorically) to things being burned up in his parables. These I take as obvious references to places of eternal torment and suffering, whether or not there's real fire there.

3. This I'll grant to an extent. The early church didn't say it that way exactly, but submission to Christ's lordship and adherance to the apostles' teachings was key to becoming Christian. To me all of that and "accepting Christ" mean essentially the same thing.

4. Acts 2:38 "And Peter replied, "repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit". Clearly part of becoming a christian meant asking forgiveness for your sins. Jesus seemed to say that this was pretty essential too. No, the early church didn't have a sinner's prayer. But the early church did believe in salvation through Jesus, and that is what they preached.
Hi mackinac81,

I think what you intend to say is that "if Jesus said it, we say it." But if you look at the book of Acts, where we see the beginning of the early church, you will see that they don't preach the things that modern Christian fundamentalism preaches. They are two different things.
And since fundamentalists say to "follow the Bible," I'm simply saying that they are the first ones to NOT follow it....
The Book of Acts shows a different understanding of the gospel than what is preached today.

Blessings,
brian
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:41 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,045,424 times
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To whom it may concern:
A comment on the OP's title of this thread "A question for fundamentalists" ....
I am not a fundamentalist or whatever
I am a child of the Living God, by faith given to me through Christ Jesus.
My testimony and life scripture is.....
I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.(Gal.2:20)
Amen !!

NOW.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Hi everyone!

Just a quick question (actually 4) to all of you who say that the Bible is our "instruction book."

If we are supposed to follow the examples of the early church, then:

1) why do you preach being "born again" when the early church didn't?

2) why do you preach hellfire and brimstone, when the early church didn't?

3) why do you preach "accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior" when the early church didn't?

4) why do you tell people to ask God for forgiveness for their sins and say a "sinner's prayer" when the early church didn't?

Hoping for good explanations...

Blessings to all,
brian

We are not to follow anything or anyone but Christ through the power and strength given to us by the Holy Spirit of God... period !!!
When one follows and focuses on people..... rather then God and His Holy Scripture...... is too why they get tossed to and fro, confused, insecure, doubting, walking in unbelief about Life and the will of God !

It was Jesus who stated one needed to be born again.... not people, if one understood what Christ was explaining to Nicodemus they would not be asking such questions....

Again it is God who says.... if one is not born again believer Baptized in the Holy Spirit through Christ Jesus they will not inherit the Kingdom of God, but perish, eternally separated from Him forever.

It was John the Baptist who spoke to multitudes of repenting of their sin. Also Peter and many of the disciples who preached to the multitude on the day of Pentecost to confess, repent of their sin and be baptized in the Holy Spirit (Psss, hint, which is in the book of Acts).
We also read through out the word of God that it states that one is to confess their sin and Christ will forgive, cleansing us from all unrighteousness which is sin, transgression....

Just so that the lurkers, seekers for God's truth know..... the book of Acts is not the only book the Lord has ordained...... there are many written, 27 in the NT and 39 in the OT, a total of 66 books that God will open the heart to His teaching, directions, guidance, protection and leading one to know the will and truth of Almighty God.

It seems the OP is having trouble believing in the other books of God's word and only focusing on the book of Acts when their are other books given to us..... let's see in the NT, we have Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Romans, Acts, I Cori nthians, II Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, I Thessalonians, II Thessalonians, I Timothy, II Timothy, Titus, Philemon, Hebrews, James, I Peter, II Peter, I John, II John, III John, Jude, and Revelations, all to which are wonderful inspiring words of God, His will for mankind !!!

The disciples of God who were filled, moved, inspired, and breathed upon by God to be His instruments, His mighty hand to write the testimony of God's truth of salvation through Christ Jesus in whom was sent to be the remedy (Atonement) for a world that is very sick with sin, spiritually dead....... in whom we read and believe that Christ coming, dying a dreadful death on the cross for our sin, to reconcile the world to God the Father, bringing salvation..... the healing balm for those who will repent and believe in Him.

The books of the Bible and the words written within are the witness of His deliverance for anyone by faith in Christ Jesus, that faith being the substance hope for yet not seen...... we learn that the dilemma of sin which blinds and causing one's unbelief in our God Christ Jesus.

Sin is very deceptive and the problem to why one is spiritually dead in their trespasses. But we learn through God's precious words, spoken long ago and are just as much ALIVE today as year's passed that in Christ there is life and hope for the one who repents of their sin, is born again, born of the Spirit, confessing Jesus Christ is Lord will be saved.

Our Helper, Comforter the Holy Spirit whom Christ promised will bring the witness of their healing from the darkness of sin' lie to faith in our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ.... amen !!
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:54 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,223 posts, read 19,996,777 times
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So what does born again mean to you Moderator cut: edit how did it come about and what was the result of you being born again ?, did you also choose it, like you chose to be born of your natural parents ?. Yes Jesus was obviously referring to our spirit.

To most saying they are born again is just a way of saying they are a bible believing christian, and i am positive this is not what being born again is at all.

Last edited by june 7th; 02-02-2011 at 10:43 AM..
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Old 02-02-2011, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,519 posts, read 31,909,570 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
To most saying they are born again is just a way of saying they are a bible believing christian, and i am positive this is not what being born again is at all.
Personally I have never met anyone with that understanding of being born again.
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Old 02-02-2011, 11:59 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,045,424 times
Reputation: 17783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Personally I have never met anyone with that understanding of being born again.
Are you serious ? Do you understand it ?

My understanding is Jesus clearly taught the birth from above.... a spiritual birth.
Nicodemus was very serious and sincere in his approach to Jesus, but he lack in spiritual understanding....
Nicodemus regarded Jesus as a teacher from God based primarily on Jesus miraculous signs. Jesus saw his real need and came immediately to the heart of the matter. His need to be born again. This birth is a transformation of the heart by the Holy Spirit which enables us to see (experience) fullness of life in the kingdom of God.
As we read Nicodemus misunderstood Jesus statement as referring to a second physical birth.

Born of water is baptism signifying the repentance aspect of salvation. The born of the Spirit refers to the new life given by the Holy Spirit to those who believe in Jesus. Both repentance and spiritual birth are necessary to enter God's kingdom.
Jesus affirms the sharp distinction between being born ot the flesh (physical birth) and being born of the Spirit (spiritual regeneration). One gives physical life the other spiritual life.

Nicodemus as a Pharisee and teacher of Israel was educated and very sincere in his asking.... yet he did not grasp the truth of birth from above. Why? Because he had not received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. We must be helped by the Spirit to understand spiritual things..... amen !
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,111,650 times
Reputation: 866
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
So what does born again mean to you Moderator cut: edit how did it come about and what was the result of you being born again ?, did you also choose it, like you chose to be born of your natural parents ?. Yes Jesus was obviously referring to our spirit.

To most saying they are born again is just a way of saying they are a bible believing christian, and i am positive this is not what being born again is at all.
Exactly. In fact, I am quite convinced that all mankind has already BEEN born again since the resurrection of Jesus Christ! The early church wasn't teaching people to be "born again." They were teaching repentance. That's all. Walk in the New Way.

So either the early church was disobedient, or they had an understanding directly from Jesus. And I believe it was the second. In fact, they were healing and raising the dead--- something that Christians aren't doing today-- including the "born again" types.

Blessings,
brian
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,519 posts, read 31,909,570 times
Reputation: 9412
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Munchkin View Post
Are you serious ? Do you understand it ?

My understanding is Jesus clearly taught the birth from above.... a spiritual birth.
Nicodemus was very serious and sincere in his approach to Jesus, but he lack in spiritual understanding....
Nicodemus regarded Jesus as a teacher from God based primarily on Jesus miraculous signs. Jesus saw his real need and came immediately to the heart of the matter. His need to be born again. This birth is a transformation of the heart by the Holy Spirit which enables us to see (experience) fullness of life in the kingdom of God.
As we read Nicodemus misunderstood Jesus statement as referring to a second physical birth.

Born of water is baptism signifying the repentance aspect of salvation. The born of the Spirit refers to the new life given by the Holy Spirit to those who believe in Jesus. Both repentance and spiritual birth are necessary to enter God's kingdom.
Jesus affirms the sharp distinction between being born ot the flesh (physical birth) and being born of the Spirit (spiritual regeneration). One gives physical life the other spiritual life.

Nicodemus as a Pharisee and teacher of Israel was educated and very sincere in his asking.... yet he did not grasp the truth of birth from above. Why? Because he had not received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. We must be helped by the Spirit to understand spiritual things..... amen !
Yes, it is a spiritual re-birth. That is what I also believe. I just said I do not know anyone who believes what the other posters said most Christians believe about being born again (simply believe the bible).
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