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Old 01-31-2011, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,120,690 times
Reputation: 866

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Hi everyone!

Just a quick question (actually 4) to all of you who say that the Bible is our "instruction book."

If we are supposed to follow the examples of the early church, then:

1) why do you preach being "born again" when the early church didn't?

2) why do you preach hellfire and brimstone, when the early church didn't?

3) why do you preach "accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior" when the early church didn't?

4) why do you tell people to ask God for forgiveness for their sins and say a "sinner's prayer" when the early church didn't?

Hoping for good explanations...

Blessings to all,
brian
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Old 01-31-2011, 04:14 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,379,665 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Hi everyone!

Just a quick question (actually 4) to all of you who say that the Bible is our "instruction book."
You disagree with that?

Quote:
If we are supposed to follow the examples of the early church, then:

1) why do you preach being "born again" when the early church didn't?
John 3:3, 1st Peter 1:23

It's there.


Quote:
2) why do you preach hellfire and brimstone, when the early church didn't?
Good point. what would 'hell'' be made up of then?

Quote:
3) why do you preach "accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior" when the early church didn't?
They lost the fact of what EXACTLY Lord or King is.

Romans 10:13, Acts 8:12,

Quote:
4) why do you tell people to ask God for forgiveness for their sins and say a "sinner's prayer" when the early church didn't?
Acts 5:31, Acts 26:18, Eph 1:7, Col 1:14

Quote:
Hoping for good explanations...

Blessings to all,
brian
There are reason doctrines and creeds are brought forth, and yes, they ARE biblical. Does it mean they are completely right? Hmm...

Peace,

Tony
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Old 01-31-2011, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,120,690 times
Reputation: 866
Tony,
even though we may debate about many things, here I have to say that I completely disagree.

For example, Jesus told Nicodemus about being "born again." That's all. Period. He didn't tell Nicodemus to say a prayer, or to "get born again." And the early church is not recorded as telling others to "get born again" either.

Well, the "born again" part is perhaps less important as, for example, the fact that the early church didn't preach on hell. No record. Period. Yet today it's all we hear about!

The other 2 points also, as I put in the OP, are not cited as examples of teachings of the early church.

So why aren't fundamentalists following their "road map?" To me, it seems that they have made up a religion that is not there. But that's just my opinion..

Blessings,
brian
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Old 01-31-2011, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 22,564,725 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Tony,
even though we may debate about many things, here I have to say that I completely disagree.

For example, Jesus told Nicodemus about being "born again." That's all. Period. He didn't tell Nicodemus to say a prayer, or to "get born again." And the early church is not recorded as telling others to "get born again" either.

Well, the "born again" part is perhaps less important as, for example, the fact that the early church didn't preach on hell. No record. Period. Yet today it's all we hear about!

The other 2 points also, as I put in the OP, are not cited as examples of teachings of the early church.

So why aren't fundamentalists following their "road map?" To me, it seems that they have made up a religion that is not there. But that's just my opinion..

Blessings,
brian
I think the whole "getting saved" thing is just an example of certain Christians taking a Bible verse literally, just as Catholics (and a couple other denominations) take "This is my body..." to mean that it's literally Christ's body. Just another example of how man-made religion is. And "getting saved" is a way for evangelicals to put a number on their efforts and raise money. Meaning, they can say, "We've saved 300 people this year".
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Old 01-31-2011, 05:44 PM
 
7,881 posts, read 6,696,496 times
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These are very basic principals for salvation , and if you do not know the answer than you need to go to a church were these ideas are preached and get saved to the truth of the Spirit of Christ ... There are Evangelical Churches in Italy mainly only 1% of population and you need to seek one out and go there, because Jesus is free reign there and it would be easy to get a testimony of Jesus spirit... Many people in Italy do not care or a freer Lord Jesus because to 75% are of Roman Catholic and that is alright if people find Jesus Spirit in their lives...... Heard a preacher of Evangelical Church from Italy some 10 years ago , who said Italy is free now for other ideas of Jesus Christ and this preacher came from the Kenneth Hagin Schools and started a hand full of Evangelical churches there in Italy ...... These people KNOW JESUS and are very blessed .....
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Old 01-31-2011, 06:02 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,609 posts, read 32,015,814 times
Reputation: 9430
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Hi everyone!

Just a quick question (actually 4) to all of you who say that the Bible is our "instruction book."

If we are supposed to follow the examples of the early church, then:

1) why do you preach being "born again" when the early church didn't?

2) why do you preach hellfire and brimstone, when the early church didn't?

3) why do you preach "accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior" when the early church didn't?

4) why do you tell people to ask God for forgiveness for their sins and say a "sinner's prayer" when the early church didn't?

Hoping for good explanations...

Blessings to all,
brian
Actually early church fathers did teach about the above things.
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Old 01-31-2011, 06:44 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,379,665 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Tony,
even though we may debate about many things, here I have to say that I completely disagree.

For example, Jesus told Nicodemus about being "born again." That's all. Period. He didn't tell Nicodemus to say a prayer, or to "get born again." And the early church is not recorded as telling others to "get born again" either.

Well, the "born again" part is perhaps less important as, for example, the fact that the early church didn't preach on hell. No record. Period. Yet today it's all we hear about!

The other 2 points also, as I put in the OP, are not cited as examples of teachings of the early church.

So why aren't fundamentalists following their "road map?" To me, it seems that they have made up a religion that is not there. But that's just my opinion..

Blessings,
brian
Well, I suppose then you need to define what your point about being 'born-again' actually is,,,according to you, or the Word,,whichever you prefer. I was just stating what the Bible says. I actually do not agree with it, as I am not a fundamentalist.
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Old 02-01-2011, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 4,908,636 times
Reputation: 624
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Hi everyone!

Just a quick question (actually 4) to all of you who say that the Bible is our "instruction book."

If we are supposed to follow the examples of the early church, then:

1) why do you preach being "born again" when the early church didn't?

2) why do you preach hellfire and brimstone, when the early church didn't?

3) why do you preach "accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior" when the early church didn't?

4) why do you tell people to ask God for forgiveness for their sins and say a "sinner's prayer" when the early church didn't?

Hoping for good explanations...

Blessings to all,
brian
Have you read the Epistles? All four of your question are addressed in the Epistles which cover the early church. Know if you are trying to use the apostate church as the early church then that is your mistake.
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Old 02-01-2011, 03:54 PM
 
138 posts, read 139,535 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Hi everyone!

Just a quick question (actually 4) to all of you who say that the Bible is our "instruction book."

If we are supposed to follow the examples of the early church, then:

1) why do you preach being "born again" when the early church didn't?

2) why do you preach hellfire and brimstone, when the early church didn't?

3) why do you preach "accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior" when the early church didn't?

4) why do you tell people to ask God for forgiveness for their sins and say a "sinner's prayer" when the early church didn't?

Hoping for good explanations...

Blessings to all,
brian

Christians don't understand that the Roman government is the one who started Christianity after they killed all the true saints. They produced the new testament that was designed to keep these new Christians from every becoming sinless saints who preach the true gospel.

Christianity isn't anything like the saints and Jesus were but the followers of the saints who were abanded when their saints were killed, didn't have a chance to fight against the Roman Empire and their new pope, Constantine who orchestrated this false religion to make sure this saint stuff would never happen again.
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Old 02-01-2011, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,120,690 times
Reputation: 866
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
Have you read the Epistles? All four of your question are addressed in the Epistles which cover the early church. Know if you are trying to use the apostate church as the early church then that is your mistake.
All of 'em! Paul doesn't use the word "hell" in his epistles; and the couple of times that "hell" is mentioned, it's not similar to what Jesus talked about.

My point of the OP, is that the Book of Acts (not the epistles written to churches) doesn't have much at all in common with modern Christianity. "Born again," "hellfire and brimstone" and "sinner's prayer" are not to be found in the Book of Acts, the very book which shows the early church "in action."

That's why I see contradictions. Fundamentalists say to follow the Bible. But they don't.

Blessings,
brian
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