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Old 02-02-2011, 12:26 PM
 
16,301 posts, read 24,299,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
The Maker of all human beings (GOD) is recalling all units manufactured, regardless of make or year, due to a serious defect in the primary and central component of the heart.
So, you are saying that those the believe in this god are defective and must be recalled?

OK, I don't see a problem with that
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:29 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,840,973 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
You read it as a Christian, not a Jew.



Judaism’s Rejection Of Original Sin


The doctrine of original sin is totally unacceptable to Jews (as it is to Christian sects such as Baptists and Assemblies of G-d). Jews believe that man enters the world free of sin, with a soul that is pure and innocent and untainted. While there were some Jewish teachers in Talmudic times who believed that death was a punishment brought upon mankind on account of Adam's sin, the dominant view by far was that man sins because he is not a perfect being, and not, as Christianity teaches, because he is inherently sinful.
You know, I would be called a racist if I were say ... you doing something different soley because you're a Jew. But I bet no such charge will be brought against you. So I guess we'll just have to do some experiments
to see

So do you acknowledge that UR'er are the same way about reading the bible, or Muslims, or JW's, or Mormons, or atheists.

Why is it not denominational bashing for you to point that out...hmmmm?

Last edited by twin.spin; 02-02-2011 at 01:05 PM..
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:57 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,307,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
You know, I would be called a racist just if I said ... you doing something different soley because you're a Jew. But I bet no such charge will be brought so I guess we'll just have to do some experiments


So do you acknowledge that UR'er are the same way about reading the bible, or Muslims, or JW's, or Mormons, or atheists.

Why is it not denominational bashing for you to point that out...hmmmm?

And you behave in a certain way and believe a certain way just because you are a Christian.

Yes I am a Jew and as a Jew I have certain beliefs because I am a Jew. How is it racist to say I am doing something different because I am a Jew. I certainly am. Maybe you want to explain yourself further?

I wasn't bashing anything just giving you some information.

Last edited by Jazzymom; 02-02-2011 at 01:16 PM..
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:05 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,323 posts, read 20,055,628 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
The short answer is yes.

However, I do not want to let the normal negatives be implied by my answer.

I believe the state in which mankind was in when first appearing was not necessarily "flawed" but in a state that was not yet perfected.

There is nothing inherantly "bad" it was only the nature of infancy on it's way to perfection.

Sin is often confused with morally "bad" or evil and perhaps scriptural translating has combined two different things using the same word.

I think there is a difference between being in a state that is not yet perfected and being morally bad or evil.

Sin can be an act of immorality, however, sin can also be missing the mark, which is not inherantly immoral.
So Adam in his state of infancy on his way to perfection, chose by free will to go against what he was admonished not to, and ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil ?.

So there had to be purpose in Him(God) creating Adam with only the potenial to be perfect.

Maybe this is the purpose why Adam was created with only the potenial to be perfect ?,"For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all", i know we would never know what mercy is unless we are in need of it. I know there are many who would rather Romans 11:32 read like this "For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on all who believe" but it doesn't.
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Paul...the purpose of Adam was Christ.
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:23 PM
 
3,584 posts, read 462,947 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Paul...the purpose of Adam was Christ.
Which Paul?
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:35 PM
 
Location: East Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Paul...the purpose of Adam was Christ.
I have to agree. So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.1 Cor 15


Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned. Romans 5:12

Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.Romans 5:18

For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all. Romans 11:32

We have to at least ask ourselves the question, was Adam included in the all men that were bound over to disobedience ?, and if so, the purpose as got to be Christ.At what point in God's mind were all me bound over to disobedience ? . The "So that he may have mercy on them all" reads like a done deal to me too.

Last edited by pcamps; 02-02-2011 at 01:54 PM..
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:40 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,840,973 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
And you behave in a certain way and believe a certain way just because you are a Christian.

Yes I am a Jew and as a Jew I have beliefs because I am a Jew. How is it racist to say I am doing something different because I am a Jew. I certainly am. Maybe you want to explain yourself further?

I wasn't bashing anything just giving you some information.
Are you saying that if a german or muslim would say "you read like a jew" that nobody would question that? ........ I don't believe that.

People are born in a sinful condition (Psalm 51:5) and are inclined only to evil (Genesis 8:21). "Flesh gives birth to flesh" (John 3:6). Since all people are by nature dead in sin and separated from God (Ephesians 2:1), they are unable to reconcile themselves to God by their own efforts and deeds.


Psalm 51:5
Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

Genesis 8:21
The LORD smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: “Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.

Jesus is a jew of heritage John 3:6
And so was Paul Ephesians 2:1
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,123,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarletWren View Post
Interesting discussion. You are all so dear to me, even though I have never met any of you.
That's the Spirit of God you are feeling! How beautiful!

Blessings to you!
Brian
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:54 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,694,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
So Adam in his state of infancy on his way to perfection, chose by free will to go against what he was admonished not to, and ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil ?.

So there had to be purpose in Him(God) creating Adam with only the potenial to be perfect.

Maybe this is the purpose why Adam was created with only the potenial to be perfect ?,"For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all", i know we would never know what mercy is unless we are in need of it. I know there are many who would rather Romans 11:32 read like this "For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on all who believe" but it doesn't.

Kids have the freedom to defy their parents, but that should not be confused with "bad" or "Evil" a child often defys a parent out of ignorance which is not inherantly immoral.

Jesus said forgive them "for they know not what they do"

"For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all"

One thing we can learn is concerning the nature of the above act. We get the implication that God went and grabbed us all against out will and threw us down into a pit of bondage. But it is actually like this. God knows what must happen for our perfection to occur, so what must happen, of course, must happen.

Take a butterfly, a butterfly appears to be in bondage of the cocoon, and eventually you can see it struggle and struggle to break free.

What happens if an ignorant child goes with all good intentions and rips the cocoon open? Most likely the buttefly dies. That is all that's really going on there. It is actually merciful to let the process of the butterfy take it's course.
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