Gentiles, Who are they? (crucified, Sodom, sin, Jesus)

[Ironmaw1776]

Originally Posted by sciotamicks

Ironmaw,

I appreciate your response, however unprepared it was, as it seems you haven't given any credible information regarding 2nd Temple Jewish understanding regarding the matter. You see, my friend, the Jewish scholars today disregard this prophecy, as they did such to many of the "latter days" prophecy in the various councils from the 2nd century to sometime in the 12th century AD. Most of the Messianic and "latter" unification prophecies regarding the 12 tribes have been long forgotten. Maybe they couldn't deal with the "remnant" factor, or maybe it was because Christ's predictions were fulfilled to the letter concerning them and the national heritage?...who knows, but anything after 70 AD regarding this particular matter concerning Gentiles and the Ten Tribes, is merely to be considered moot to the subject. I was hoping we would get farther quicker, as I had believed you would be able to tackle this responsibly. Remember, the 1st century Jewish theocracy considered the Ten Tribes, lost and decimated. The scriptures prove God thought otherwise....hence...your cup of indignation is full.

You can believe what ever makes you happy ... I wont hold it against you.

You can believe that night is day and that day is night if it pleases you ...

Just don't expect others to take it seriously.


Peace ...

[Jerwade]

When did Judaism begin?
Is it a religious (culture), ethnic, or geographical term?
Does Religion overcome ethnicity or a geographical location?
What is a Judaean?
What about Galilaeans?
Was Christ Jewish, a Hebrew, Galilaean, or Judaean?
What exactly is the meaning of Ioudaios?
Who are the true Israelites?

My apologies for the one liners' (just something to think about?)

[pcamps]

Ken are you saying that the lost tribes are/could be Gentiles ?

[ovcatto]

Originally Posted by Jerwade

When did Judaism begin?
Is it a religious (culture), ethnic, or geographical term?
Does Religion overcome ethnicity or a geographical location?
What is a Judaean?
What about Galilaeans?
Was Christ Jewish, a Hebrew, Galilaean, or Judaean?
What exactly is the meaning of Ioudaios?
Who are the true Israelites?

My apologies for the one liners' (just something to think about?)

According to the Judaic narrative Judaism began with the covenant between Abraham and god (Genesis 15:18-21) in the second millennium BCE.

Judaism is all the above; a religion, a culture, and an ethnic group. It is not a geographical location.

A Judaean, is anyone who is from or inhabited the area of Judaea which formerly comprised the Kingdom of Judah. It bordered the east bank of the Jordan river. Judea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Christ was both a Jew, and a Hebrew, apparently, the term Hebrew came into fashion to distinguish Jews from Jewish Christians.

I would imagine that Christ would be a Galilaean since Nazareth was north of Judea, and according the Bible spent all but three years of his life there.

The exact meaning of Ioudaios - original spelling Ἰουδαῖος - is a person belonging to the Jewish nation. Almost as simple as the meaning of Gentile which anyone who was not a Ioudaios.
Ioudaios.

Apparently this thread is trying to decipher some deeper and non-existing meaning of these words so I stay out of that "theological" debate. But the straight forward answer is that any descendent of Jacob and the historical population of Israel is an Israelite. Not surprisingly, recent DNA studies have revealed that the vast majority of modern Jews are closely related and trace their origins to the middle east, particularly the descendants of priestly families of Kohenim and Levites, modern day Cohns and Levys.

[sciotamicks]

Originally Posted by pcamps

Ken are you saying that the lost tribes are/could be Gentiles ?

No Paul...the lost tribes became Gentiles, and were/are being called back.
They are the direct reference, I believe Paul is covering in Romans and other epistles, as I provided Genesis' exegesis for it. This interpretation is nothing new under the sun, but it appears to be such here.

You can all begin here as I did. On another forum, a year or so ago, I debated with a couple of Preterists that brought this interpretation to the table in a thread. However, they missed a very key issue regarding the pagan conversions, and got lost in their hermeneutics, as they continued right past the theme without noticing it. A shame really, for them, because they feel no one is saved after 70 AD. I conitinued to run into this theme in other threads and discussions, however others were seeing the converted pagan references. I researched it further, and it is becoming more evident as I delve deeper into the holy scriptures, that this appears to be the case.

[pcamps]

Originally Posted by sciotamicks

No Paul...the lost tribes became Gentiles, and were/are being called back.
They are the direct reference, I believe Paul is covering in Romans and other epistles, as I provided Genesis' exegesis for it. This interpretation is nothing new under the sun, but it appears to be such here.

You can all begin here as I did. On another forum, a year or so ago, I debated with a couple of Preterists that brought this interpretation to the table in a thread. However, they missed a very key issue regarding the pagan conversions, and got lost in their hermeneutics, as they continued right past the theme without noticing it. A shame really, for them, because they feel no one is saved after 70 AD. I conitinued to run into this theme in other threads and discussions, however others were seeing the converted pagan references. I researched it further, and it is becoming more evident as I delve deeper into the holy scriptures, that this appears to be the case.

Ken the only scriptual way i can see you can be a jew or gentile, after the flesh is by birth.

We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles. Gal 2:15.

Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised”.Ephesians 2:11.

I see no reference to jews becoming gentiles in the scriptures. I know the scripture refers to us as being a jew inwardly,i do not see the same reference to becoming a gentile inwardly.

It seems to be this theology is thought up to say everyone who believes is of Israel, and all those who do not believe are excluded,in otherwords the all referred to in Romans 11:32* is all Israel,and in this way dismissing what it is really saying.I mean it just doesn't make sense that God is able to save all, or at the very least just the measly few that most of christendom subscribes to, or all Israel and a measly few of us gentiles ?

*For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all. (Jew and Gentile)

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by pcamps

Ken are you saying that the lost tribes are/could be Gentiles ?

When doing my families genealogy on my mother's side ifound out that my grandmother's mother was a daughter of Jewish immigrants from Pest, Hunary and that they were marranos or conversos and had been Methodists since arriving here or soon after....so, it could be true that the Gentiles that are hearing the call are in fact descended from the original lost tribes...

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by pcamps

so that he may have mercy on them all. (Jew and Gentile)

If i remember correctly that sentence is in context with a discussion regarding the Jews....

[Jazzymom]

Originally Posted by Richard1965

When doing my families genealogy on my mother's side ifound out that my grandmother's mother was a daughter of Jewish immigrants from Pest, Hunary and that they were marranos or conversos and had been Methodists since arriving here or soon after....so, it could be true that the Gentiles that are hearing the call are in fact descended from the original lost tribes...

Not the lost tribes but people who have Jewish ancestry that has been lost or hidden because of the forced exile and violence directed towards the Jewish people.

Many people have Jewish ancestry which is hidden. It is said by the Rabbis that when one becomes a Jew it may be that they already have a Jewish soul and they are coming home. Many people who convert to Judaism later find out they do have Jewish ancestry.

[Bideshi]

Originally Posted by ovcatto

you are a Gentile or in Hebrew Gôyîm.

Actually that word means "cattle".