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Old 02-10-2011, 07:31 PM
 
876 posts, read 840,199 times
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Default Thomas the disciple

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
I would suggest approaching the OT in regards to the wheat and grapes..

Here a start:

Jeremiah 25
We read in John 20:24-25 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

John 20:26-31 (And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Thomas! he this represents all the Jews, who did not believed

Matt 23:37-39 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

God did not forsake Jews, disciple Thomas and all people represent those who do not believe. All must confess Jesus is the Christ!
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Old 02-10-2011, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,214 posts, read 3,152,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWordIsOne View Post
We read in John 20:24-25 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

John 20:26-31 (And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Thomas! he this represents all the Jews, who did not believed

Matt 23:37-39 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

God did not forsake Jews, disciple Thomas and all people represent those who do not believe. All must confess Jesus is the Christ!
Amen!
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Old 02-11-2011, 03:28 AM
 
Location: US
9,895 posts, read 3,607,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel
I am not sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

"It is beyond a shadow of a doubt for whom He was sent; each and every one of us."
Read it again in context as he spoke to the woman...you'll get the picture unless you don't want to see it...
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Old 02-11-2011, 04:05 AM
 
7,270 posts, read 2,377,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Read it again in context as he spoke to the woman...you'll get the picture unless you don't want to see it...
"I see" said the blind man. So, are you one of the ninety, plus nine that needs no repentance?
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Old 02-11-2011, 08:37 AM
 
40 posts, read 26,057 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel
I am not sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

"It is beyond a shadow of a doubt for whom He was sent; each and every one of us."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Read it again in context as he spoke to the woman...you'll get the picture unless you don't want to see it...

I did a thread on this awhile ago. I have some problems figuring out these bible verses and many questions concerning them. I think one of the keys to figuring out the true context, at least for me, is who Jesus was talking to in Matt 15:24.

If you look at what’s going on in Matt 15:21-28 wouldn’t Jesus have been answering the disciples rather than the woman?

This is the way I see it:

· The woman talks to Jesus--He ignores her

· The disciples talk to Jesus--He answers them

· The woman asks again--Jesus answers her

If anyone disagrees it would help me out a great deal to know why.
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Old 02-11-2011, 12:00 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 4,193,151 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Then why does Christ state that He caqme not but for the Lost Sheep of the House of Isreal?...
Because at that time in Christs ministry he had not yet been rejected by Israel.

We all know that Christ did not only die for Israel(the Jews) ... And it is not as if the father did not know Israel would reject his son, as he is the one that hardened their hearts so that they would reject him.

Christ also said to the woman ...

“It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to their dogs.” ... This gentile woman who was asking for mercy and help from Christ, he called a dog.

The dog is a symbol of the gentile nations, as seen various places throughout the scriptures such as the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.

Christ was testing the womans faith ... He was saying she was not among "lost sheep of Israel" ... But that her faith was great and so the daughter was saved even though she was not one of the lost sheep of Israel to whom Christ had initially been sent.

You shouldn't take these words of Christ and rip them out of the context in which he said them and to whom he said them, and you certainly cannot convince me that the woman herself was only healed because she was a member of the lost tribe of Israel.

If you are agreeing with what i think Sciotamicks is trying to say, that being that only Jews believe, and that the gentiles that believe must there also be members of the lost tribes of Israel and thus still "children of the covenant" as he understands it, then i think you are both obviously way out of line.

But if you all want to believe that God and Christ are not in reality the savior of the whole world and of all people, then go right on ahead and believe and teach whatever you want ...
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Old 02-11-2011, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,214 posts, read 3,152,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
If you are agreeing with what i think Sciotamicks is trying to say, that being that only Jews believe, and that the gentiles that believe must there also be members of the lost tribes of Israel and thus still "children of the covenant" as he understands it, then i think you are both obviously way out of line.
As I read your statement, I have concluded based on your understanding of this theme, that it is far from the reaches of your familiarity with the scriptures....and the Holy Scriptures as Paul referred to, which includes without a doubt, many other works apart from what exists in the Canon.
It is clear, that this concept, is difficult for you to grasp, and you are left misrepresenting the subject of this thread.

Quote:
But if you all want to believe that God and Christ are not in reality the savior of the whole world and of all people, then go right on ahead and believe and teach whatever you want ..
Please keep the UR paradigm out of this, it has no place in it.
No one has even remotely said that Christ is not the savior of the world, but what has been said, that this concept hinges on Israel salvation and resurrection, all 12 tribes, the remnant elected according to grace, the seven thousand, and the 144k.
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Old 02-11-2011, 01:42 PM
 
Location: RI
18,949 posts, read 8,805,399 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Indeed they did! I have provided plenty of exegesis, either you didn't read it, or you simply don't understand. Romans 11 is a DIRECT reference to Genesis 48...how is this so hard to see?

Secondly, it is clear in Acts, when Peter was told to RISE, KILL and EAT, and the animal symbolism involved (as I noted in the OP, direct references to OT allusion of the "hanger's on and not Israelites or Jews), specifically distinguishes who he was going to (Gentiles) as opposed to lost Israelites.
Ken were the Lost tribes circumcised, at the point of Paul writing this letter, if so, hewould have never referred to them as gentiles.

Richard if in your opinion if the lost sheep are the lost tribes, doesn't that discount those tribes that were not lost. It seems this belief that the lost tribe are the gentiles of Romans 11, is a teaching to support Calvinism. Everyone who is saved is obviously some how descendant one of the tribes and good luck to the rest
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Old 02-11-2011, 02:40 PM
 
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'O woman, great [is] the faith, let it be done as you desire.'
And the daughter was healed from that moment on – predicated on the faithfulness of another; not her own faith.
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Old 02-11-2011, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,214 posts, read 3,152,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Ken were the Lost tribes circumcised, at the point of Paul writing this letter, if so, hewould have never referred to them as gentiles.
No, they weren't, that was predominantly the issue at the Council of Jerusalem.
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