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When a faith tradition uses a book to prove what they believe as the truth that book is pretty central, and without it how can truth be proven?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom
Can faith be carried on without a bible?
Without the presence of the Bible as one knows it today, June tends to doubt that Christianity would take on the form it has today. However, in response to your question as to whether truth can be proven without a holy book (bible or otherwise) she would still conjecture that the answer is "yes."
Mankind has always been inclined to look for meaning in this world. There exists no lack of philosophical scholars who address the meaning and existence of "faith" without having relied upon the bible, and who strove to prove or to at least question the existence of a God and the presence of some kind of faith. Soren Kiekegaard, although no doubt having read the bible at some point in his life, ponts out the following: "Science and scholarship want to teach that becoming objective is the way. Christianity teaches that the way is to become subjective, to become the object. The scientist can learn about the world by observation but can the scientist learn about the inner workings of the spiritual world by observation...The crucial thing is to find a truth which is truth..."
In other words, mankind would find some way in which to prove some kind of existence in God, as it always has. June would also conjecture that mankind strives in some sort of belief that this world is not the end of one's existence, and that the desire for "something else" beyond death is central to the belief systems of this world; Christianity certainly being one of them. As well, within this belief is the desire for some sort of "salvation" as mankind wishes to feel and to thereby know that they are not limited to their own worldly and finite selves. Christianity is somewhat unique in that there was the actual living presence of Jesus upon which to base their religion.
However, philosophy addressed the question of faith and Truth without relying upon the bible. Sigmund Freud was an atheist, and yet he quite effectively addressed the desire in mankind to find a belief system outside of himself. June highly doubts that Freud (although no doubt at some point having read the Christian bible) was able to address the question as to the nonexistence of a God, and why. He also addressed the reason as to why individuals have faith.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum
B] Native Americans have never had their cultural and spiritual beliefs put in written words and our beliefs have continued to exist for many many thousands of years.... Our religion is the traditions of our ancestors, the dream of our old men, given to us by the Creator....Is it possible that Christianity will cease to exist if all of their writings and books were to disappear, it's possible, but it's also possible that its numbers will diminish somewhat because there are those who need to have some kind of written proof that their religion even exists.
Again, June would conjecture that Christianity in some form would continue to exist today, in much the same way that Ptsum highlights the existence of the Native American belief system which is not based upon any written texts. While she agrees that there are those who need a written text in order to have some underlying, fundamental basis upon which their religion or faith is based, she does not feel that a text, per se, is a fundamental necessity. Perhaps, in all likelihood, mankind would come up with some version (albeit, somewhat altered) that would depict some form of Christianity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin
What about the varied beliefs....besides that they're false.
June would respectfully say that the above is a statement of faith, and while based upon the Bible, she would have to disagree that all other varied beliefs are false, based upon the equally as strong sentiment that they may well be accurate and/or correct, althought largely dependent upon cultural influences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin
We say "The Bible is sufficient for the only source of God's word and God's will which humans have for salvation"
June would actually agree with twin's statement, above, as she tends to believe that mankind has an inherent desire to believe is some form of salvation.
June would further contend that Jazzymom's faith and/or belief in Judaism would probably not be as strong as it is without the existence of the Jewish texts. There need be a foundation for a strong belief system; something upon which it is based. That is not to say that the Jewish faith would take on the same form it does today without it's own written texts, just as Christianity would not take on the same form it does today without it's written texts. In all likelihood, however, it would still exist.
Lastly, there is this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur
Of course oral transmissions are probably less reliable than are written records, so that could be a problem. My faith is Him exists independently of the written word.
Perhaps the most important point here is that Christianity would still exist. The bible, whether divinely inspired or merely written by mankind none the less had it's origins in oral tradition. As such, there is a very strong reason that even without any written text to base itself upon, Christianity would still be a viablely believable belief system. An awful lot of time transpired prior to the Christian beliefs being transformed into written text. Somehow, those belief systems (Christianity in particular) managed to survive, and would continue to.
June is not certain that she has actually addressed your OP, but she gave it her best shot....
Did faith exist prior to the written word .... obviously.
That however doesn't mean that "any faith". To simply having a "sincere faith" reguardless on what it is based on is not the truth.
So to answer in the context of your trying to discredit the importance of the Bible:
Can faith exist without the Bible ....yes and no.
No in that: It is the only source to find absolute truth, God's promise and clarity for the correct saving plan of salvation.
No other faith is a saving faith that is based on outside the covers of the Bible
As it stands today all false faiths or false understandings have certian common beliefs, which when heard, should set off alarm bells. They are:
Reject the Bible as inspired
Reject the Bible as accurate
Reject the Bible's authenticity
deny accountability of unbelief
argues over the meaning of words
make light of sin and hell
Reject historic Christianity
believe the teachings of the "church" apostate\estray
some new "revelation" from God was\is needed
I reject Christianity because it is not my tradition... I do not reject G-d.
It is not historic nor proven....
But all have a right to their faith because even if I don't accept it...
There are many paths to G-d...... Christianity is just one of them...
If the Bible would dissapear tomorrow I would still have my faith in G-d and I don't need to disparage another in order to make myself seem better..
I believe those who speak the loudest might have fears....
A simple question should not cause such angst and in many responses it didn't.
What would Christians do if there was not Bible? Don't cut and paste scripture, just think about it and ponder what would happen if the bible were to disapear? What would happen?
Can faith be carried on without a bible?
Contemplate belief in G-d without Scripture to fall back on.
Contemplate that the very last Biblical manuscript, writing, Bible is gone and cannot be recreated.
What would you do?
Yes faith can be "carried on" with or without a bible, the word of God is already written in our hearts. We only need to be still and listen. I believe that our consciences and our hearts are there first and foremost to guide us into the truth, but we must listen. Even if the bible had never existed, we would still know and understand who and what God is. Yep.
Without the presence of the Bible as one knows it today, June tends to doubt that Christianity would take on the form it has today. However, in response to your question as to whether truth can be proven without a holy book (bible or otherwise) she would still conjecture that the answer is "yes."
Mankind has always been inclined to look for meaning in this world. There exists no lack of philosophical scholars who address the meaning and existence of "faith" without having relied upon the bible, and who strove to prove or to at least question the existence of a God and the presence of some kind of faith. Soren Kiekegaard, although no doubt having read the bible at some point in his life, ponts out the following: "Science and scholarship want to teach that becoming objective is the way. Christianity teaches that the way is to become subjective, to become the object. The scientist can learn about the world by observation but can the scientist learn about the inner workings of the spiritual world by observation...The crucial thing is to find a truth which is truth..."
In other words, mankind would find some way in which to prove some kind of existence in God, as it always has. June would also conjecture that mankind strives in some sort of belief that this world is not the end of one's existence, and that the desire for "something else" beyond death is central to the belief systems of this world; Christianity certainly being one of them. As well, within this belief is the desire for some sort of "salvation" as mankind wishes to feel and to thereby know that they are not limited to their own worldly and finite selves. Christianity is somewhat unique in that there was the actual living presence of Jesus upon which to base their religion.
However, philosophy addressed the question of faith and Truth without relying upon the bible. Sigmund Freud was an atheist, and yet he quite effectively addressed the desire in mankind to find a belief system outside of himself. June highly doubts that Freud (although no doubt at some point having read the Christian bible) was able to address the question as to the nonexistence of a God, and why. He also addressed the reason as to why individuals have faith.
Again, June would conjecture that Christianity in some form would continue to exist today, in much the same way that Ptsum highlights the existence of the Native American belief system which is not based upon any written texts. While she agrees that there are those who need a written text in order to have some underlying, fundamental basis upon which their religion or faith is based, she does not feel that a text, per se, is a fundamental necessity. Perhaps, in all likelihood, mankind would come up with some version (albeit, somewhat altered) that would depict some form of Christianity.
June would respectfully say that the above is a statement of faith, and while based upon the Bible, she would have to disagree that all other varied beliefs are false, based upon the equally as strong sentiment that they may well be accurate and/or correct, althought largely dependent upon cultural influences.
June would actually agree with twin's statement, above, as she tends to believe that mankind has an inherent desire to believe is some form of salvation.
June would further contend that Jazzymom's faith and/or belief in Judaism would probably not be as strong as it is without the existence of the Jewish texts. There need be a foundation for a strong belief system; something upon which it is based. That is not to say that the Jewish faith would take on the same form it does today without it's own written texts, just as Christianity would not take on the same form it does today without it's written texts. In all likelihood, however, it would still exist.
Lastly, there is this:
Perhaps the most important point here is that Christianity would still exist. The bible, whether divinely inspired or merely written by mankind none the less had it's origins in oral tradition. As such, there is a very strong reason that even without any written text to base itself upon, Christianity would still be a viablely believable belief system. An awful lot of time transpired prior to the Christian beliefs being transformed into written text. Somehow, those belief systems (Christianity in particular) managed to survive, and would continue to.
June is not certain that she has actually addressed your OP, but she gave it her best shot....
If the bible is not necessary for belief why did they even bother?
When a faith tradition uses a book to prove what they believe as the truth that book is pretty central, and without it how can truth be proven?
You have that backwards. We used tradition to dictate what was in the bible, the point, to make things easier. Simple as that. To help keep out heretical teachings. Though you still needed tradition to stay in line. Otherwise you get some of the heretical teachings that a lot of Protestantism gives.
I believe those who speak the loudest might have fears....
A simple question should not cause such angst and in many responses it didn't.
Such a simple question........
Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th
Ah, but conversely, it could be that they also have the strongest faith, based upon and/or supported by a text, in this case, the bible....
Ah, yes,.....^^^^ look at the strength of Paul's faith and was most definitely the loudest of them all !!! And am reminded he was our first missionary too go all over being a Roman citizen and Jew teaching the word of God.
And there of course before Paul was John the Baptist who did a whole lot of yelling..... ummmm, I mean was loud...
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It's very simple, but as we all know those who scream the loudest are the ones lacking in faith. That speaks volumes.
