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Old 03-03-2011, 11:51 PM
 
23,186 posts, read 11,388,176 times
Reputation: 3932

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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
Wow!

How do you guys look into the same book and come up with completely opposite opinions?

I recall my mom telling me a story about some Jehovah's Witnesses coming to her door when I was a kid. She, knowing they do not believe in eternal torment either, asked them, "if there is no ultimate and eternal consequence for my wrongdoings, why accept what you have to say?" I think this is where the ET position stands. They believe that without that ultimate fear of ETERNAL and EVERLASTING damnation hanging over a person's head, there is no need to buy into their product. If suffering for my misdeeds (while living it up) might only bring me some temporary misery, maybe even death but ultimately I will be gracing the presence of Jesus forever some time in the future, why not just go all out and keep that level of assurance in the back of my head?
This goes directly to the heart of the "state of mind" we are supposed to possess . . . "love of God and each other." Someone as you describe who is ultimately following the threats of a "GodFather" to avoid punishment does not have the "state of mind" that is resonant with God's . . . they are failing. Failure always has consequences that usually involve re-learning and other unpleasantries. In other words . . . the very idea that we are supposed to be obedient pets OR ELSE . . . is counterproductive to the "state of mind" we NEED to ensure our compatibility with God.
Quote:
Again, I respect the Universalist view that one's commitment to their god should not driven by fear as that will eventually produce hypocrisy and sometimes, even pure evil, but I still believe the universalist worldview is reaction to the old traditional, fear based ugly view that paints the biblical god in a VERY bad light (despite scriptures that reflect some rather unflattering views).
It is the old traditionalist, fear-based ugly view that blasphemes the true nature of our loving God.

Last edited by MysticPhD; 03-04-2011 at 12:49 AM..

 
Old 03-04-2011, 12:22 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,966 posts, read 3,023,080 times
Reputation: 1524
Last, but not least, let us not forget that God is a living God and a sovereign God who is in control of every person's eternal destiny. That comforts me because I know that God is very good and that his mercies are new every morning and his love never fails. The ET dogma does not allow for one to believe that. And Jesus said I must forgive those who trespass against me (all of them). Why? Because God will forgive us all. I cannot pray for and love my neighbor if I suspect that God despises him or her for some particular sin and weakness they are bound by. It's not easy to walk as Jesus walked, that's for sure because most of us do not want to forgive those who do what we deem to be terrible things.
 
Old 03-04-2011, 12:49 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,214 posts, read 3,328,661 times
Reputation: 402
Heartsong....How can God despise someone that doesn't know His statuettes to transgress against them?
Don't you have to know a law, to transgress it? Maybe your neighbor doesn't know God...maybe it is time to tell him about Him? That is your purpose isn't it? Your calling?

Folks....once scripture is put in its proper historical context bitter arguments over "specific" doctrines lose all meaning because it becomes ever more clear they had absolutely nothing to do with us. Sure, we can interpret the scriptures to apply to us in some sort of fashion, one way or another, in Christian righteous living, but the Apostles had absolutely no concern for for the centuries that would follow theirs. "But this I say brethren, the time is short.....the night is far spend and the Day is at hand.." (1 Cor 7:29 / Rom 13:12). The Apostles warned and exhorted no-one but the generations THEN living. So why all the bicker about what is true and not???...UR or ET...or even the silly notion of annihilationism?.....they are all silly...there is one doctrine....Christ is the way to God. Believe on Him, and you are saved.

The Bible is a collection of "historical" writings that tells of the glories and tragedies, fall and redemption, of ONE divinely called Race. A covenant-bound People who had their genesis in approx. 4,000 BC and their end in 70AD when they were freed from that which had cursed THEM for four millennia Heb 8:13. Then came “the end” of their old relationship with God in this life and the beginning of a new one in the next 1 Cor 15:24. THERE WAS NO MORE. It truly was “finished” and their “place” "mansions" in the World Above awaited THEM John 14.

However, if it pleases a person to convince himself that the "faith" he has in his delusion is the same as the “faith” recounted in scripture and that the Bible had, or has, anything to do with him, well, if it makes him happy why not…? In fact, why not go the whole hog and don robes and sandals and make an even better show of it? But if defenceless children are affected by their madness that's a different story. And that is what is happening now, and has been happening for quite sometime, UR included.

When the "God of the Bible" is viewed as the One who manifested Himself to a SINGLE Race during a predetermined period Mark 13:32, Acts 15:18, the historical events of scripture...including Genesis 1-3, which outlines 'pictorially and metaphorically' in its literary and historical context, the origins of THAT covenant bound People with the calling of its Common Ancestor and Covenant Head, Adam, consummated for all those who call on God, by Christ. The new age for Christendom-inion has already begun. Take care of your family, and help others obtain what you have.

Believe in Christ, and that He rose from the dead, and you are saved.

That's Christendom, and no other.....not UR, ET, AN, or whatever else you want to unite yourself with, it is all jargon, and irresponsibly forced presupposition on a text that has literally nothing to do with you or myself.

Consider it a living, breathing, history of God's work.
The reality of its effect on you after you come to the belief in Him, you become a living, breathing, part of His new Creation 2 Cor 5:17

Blessing to all of you in Jesus Christ's name.

Last edited by sciotamicks; 03-04-2011 at 01:04 AM..
 
Old 03-04-2011, 02:38 AM
 
7,374 posts, read 4,454,690 times
Reputation: 872
well, its so obvious, you want people to believe the way that you do ... And if It does not work the that way you want it to. Or do you want to challenge?
 
Old 03-04-2011, 02:40 AM
 
7,374 posts, read 4,454,690 times
Reputation: 872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
well, its so obvious, you want people to believe the way that you do ... And if It does not work the that way you want it to. Or do you want to challenge?
You all were done 2,000 years ago!

Okay, then pray, that you will not suffer the destruction of Babylon ... Lets see who God prefers ...
 
Old 03-04-2011, 02:46 AM
 
7,374 posts, read 4,454,690 times
Reputation: 872
Let us Pray in our hearts that God destroy's us who desires the salvation of everyone. Be our enemy righteous people ... Deny the victory of Christ ... dead people.
 
Old 03-04-2011, 02:56 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,966 posts, read 3,023,080 times
Reputation: 1524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Grace is for believers in Christ. Non believers according to scripture will only experience the wrath of God. And that is why salvation in this life is so important.
Really?! Grace is for believers? And I thought God's grace was for everyone... "Come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden..." "Lord, I believe -- help thou my unbelief"...

What you are saying is that salvation is a reward for those who believe. But the scriptures say salvation is a gift, not a reward.
 
Old 03-04-2011, 03:04 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 2,813,891 times
Reputation: 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
"In the greatest confusion there is an open channel to the soul through the Spirit, which brings nourishment."
Yes, and "a house that is divided against itself shall not stand."

This house of Christendom is coming down fast, folks!

Blessings,
brian
 
Old 03-04-2011, 03:09 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 2,813,891 times
Reputation: 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
Wow!

How do you guys look into the same book and come up with completely opposite opinions?

I recall my mom telling me a story about some Jehovah's Witnesses coming to her door when I was a kid. She, knowing they do not believe in eternal torment either, asked them, "if there is no ultimate and eternal consequence for my wrongdoings, why accept what you have to say?" I think this is where the ET position stands. They believe that without that ultimate fear of ETERNAL and EVERLASTING damnation hanging over a person's head, there is no need to buy into their product. If suffering for my misdeeds (while living it up) might only bring me some temporary misery, maybe even death but ultimately I will be gracing the presence of Jesus forever some time in the future, why not just go all out and keep that level of assurance in the back of my head?

Again, I respect the Universalist view that one's commitment to their god should not driven by fear as that will eventually produce hypocrisy and sometimes, even pure evil, but I still believe the universalist worldview is reaction to the old traditional, fear based ugly view that paints the biblical god in a VERY bad light (despite scriptures that reflect some rather unflattering views).
I liked your post, Insane.

Of course, if God is going to lose most of His creation in the end.. ??

Doesn't sound like "Good News," does it?

Reflect on this a moment:
Why would God condemn ALL His own creatures from the get-go??


There IS a plan, imo... and a very GOOD One!!

Blessings,
brian
 
Old 03-04-2011, 05:46 AM
 
Location: RI
19,392 posts, read 9,518,310 times
Reputation: 1348
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Yes, and "a house that is divided against itself shall not stand."

This house of Christendom is coming down fast, folks!

Blessings,
brian
The window shutters and doors are shut on Main St Christendom.

It's become a house of darkness(from within) rather than light,it's biggest downfall is it believes it has all the truth(the whole revelation of God), when in fact it doesn't, God is restoring that which is lost(light),so it obviously doesn't,having a bible in your hand does not mean you have all the light, neither does saying i believe in Jesus and the bible mean you have too.

Last edited by pcamps; 03-04-2011 at 06:55 AM..
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