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Old 03-03-2011, 12:18 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,683,225 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Well there should be no surprise here. For Scripture teaches us that the time would come when men would not endure sound doctrine. And it also tells us that before the man of sin would be revealed, there would be a great falling away from the faith. Even my wife in recent days has been beginning to notice some very strange messages that are being preached from the pulpit. I believe the purpose of universalism. Will help aid the future Anti Christ with his one world religion. Considering all the other Biblical prophecies. Universalism would play into them very well at this time.

Yes, not to mention that traditional Christianity is inherantly the result of that falling away.

 
Old 03-03-2011, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,286,831 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
Yes, I WAS a Christian up until perhaps a decade ago, but I was of the fundamentalist flavor believing in a heaven and hell and that "saved" folks went to heaven and unsaved folks wound up in hell (I began to believe this less and less as time went on). The concept of universalism was foreign to me and without even listening to its details, me and many others like me would discard it as pure heresy and nothing more than a cheap excuse for folks to get over in the end. Just from being here, I see it is far more prevalent and persistent than I thought and now I am seeing this:

Christian author's book sparks charges of heresy – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs
Insane,

I disagree. I see Universalism diminishing in its plight, as more and more exegetical analysis of the scripture, and extra canonical works, clearly show that the Hebrew mind, as well as the Greek mind, considered the use of all, every, and entire, to be solely a euphemism for those within the stated context of the subject being discussed. In other words, all does not mean all.
It only mean those within the contextual group being discussed, as in 1 Corinthians 15, all is not every soul that has ever lived, but every one of those that have died to the law, as Paul clearly stated in 1 Corinthians 10, where he established his audience without error.

Universalism is built upon this premise alone, and it is by this premise, that it falls irresponsibly into a paradigm that was developed inconclusively, and without proper exegetical proof, and was developed off mystical and presumptuous opinions based on emotionality, rather than scripturally.

I recommend Amazon.com: The Temple and the Church's Mission: A Biblical Theology of the Dwelling Place of God (New Studies in Biblical Theology) (9780830826186): G. K. Beale: Books

For all those who are interested in historical and grammatical conclusions based on the cultural surrounding in which the Hebrews lived. He is a futurist, however, his conclusions are far deeper than what a Universalist is willing to accept, because of their presuppositions imposed onto the redemptive work God provided for those who believe on Him, in this life.

Their reward, is eternal life.
 
Old 03-03-2011, 12:32 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,683,225 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Insane,

I disagree. I see Universalism diminishing in its plight, as more and more exegetical analysis of the scripture, and extra canonical works, clearly show that the Hebrew mind, as well as the Greek mind, considered the use of all, every, and entire, to be solely a euphemism for those within the stated context of the subject being discussed. In other words, all does not mean all.
It only mean those within the contextual group being discussed, as in 1 Corinthians 15, all is not every soul that has ever lived, but every one of those that have died to the law, as Paul clearly stated in 1 Corinthians 10, where he established his audience without error.

Universalism is built upon this premise alone, and it is by this premise, that it falls irresponsibly into a paradigm that was developed inconclusively, and without proper exegetical proof, and was developed off mystical and presumptuous opinions based on emotionality, rather than scripturally.

I recommend Amazon.com: The Temple and the Church's Mission: A Biblical Theology of the Dwelling Place of God (New Studies in Biblical Theology) (9780830826186): G. K. Beale: Books

For all those who are interested in historical and grammatical conclusions based on the cultural surrounding in which the Hebrews lived. He is a futurist, however, his conclusions are far deeper than what a Universalist is willing to accept, because of their presuppositions imposed onto the redemptive work God provided for those who believe on Him, in this life.

Their reward, is eternal life.

It is true that you can find some Christian Universalists teachings that use a phrase "all means all" and fail to correctly summarize the facts that scripture uses ALL with a context of a limited number of people.

However, it is also just as incorrect to state that ALL in reference to salvation of humanity cannot be scripturally supported to mean every human being who has, does and will ever exist, because it can.
 
Old 03-03-2011, 01:05 PM
 
37,508 posts, read 25,238,629 times
Reputation: 5857
Traditional Christendom is the 2000+ year old heresy that is anti-Christ (pro ancient Jehovah) and has been threatening the universalist truth of Christ from the first few centuries onward. It is a travesty of human corruption and distortion that blasphemes the TRUE NATURE of God as revealed and exemplified by Jesus Christ!
 
Old 03-03-2011, 01:12 PM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,554,397 times
Reputation: 4461
Just wanted to say hell-o before this thread gets nuked!!
 
Old 03-03-2011, 01:23 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,432,516 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Well there should be no surprise here. For Scripture teaches us that the time would come when men would not endure sound doctrine. And it also tells us that before the man of sin would be revealed, there would be a great falling away from the faith. Even my wife in recent days has been beginning to notice some very strange messages that are being preached from the pulpit. I believe the purpose of universalism. Will help aid the future Anti Christ with his one world religion. Considering all the other Biblical prophecies. Universalism would play into them very well at this time.
Now that's funny.

Let's think this through a minute:

The antichrist is going to come on the scene and he is going to tell the world that God and Christ are fully victorious over sin and death and due to God sacrificing His only begotten Son all mankind will be saved because all mankind's sins were died for.

The antichrist is going to preach that "God will save all mankind. . . for . . . Christ ransomed all mankind" 1 Timothy 2:4-6 and that he should preach this because God told him to in 1 Timothy 4:10 especially verse 11.

The antichrist is going to preach that all mankind were made sinners due to what Adam did and the same all mankind will be made righteous due to what Christ did (see Romans 5:18,19).

I'm curious why you think Satan would tell the world that Jesus Christ is fully victorious over sin and death and that all mankind will eventually bow their knee in the name of Jesus and happily acclaim that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2:8-11).

Really, you are too funny.
 
Old 03-03-2011, 01:31 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,432,516 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Universalism is built upon this premise alone, and it is by this premise, that it falls irresponsibly into a paradigm that was developed inconclusively, and without proper exegetical proof, and was developed off mystical and presumptuous opinions based on emotionality, rather than scripturally.

Their reward, is eternal life.
Ah yes, your paradigm is rewards based. You do the right thing and God will owe you salvation. I'm sure you've got God in your pocket for sure. He probably owes you quite allot. He must be so indebted to you.

By the way, I have never based the truth of God saving all mankind on emotionality. Not even once. That is a lie. Do you like spreading lies? Does He reward you for lying too?
 
Old 03-03-2011, 01:40 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,182 posts, read 19,976,834 times
Reputation: 2107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
I'm not to big on todays church. Yet I have embraced God's Word found in the Bible.
So have i brother.
 
Old 03-03-2011, 01:43 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,182 posts, read 19,976,834 times
Reputation: 2107
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Traditional Christendom is the 2000+ year old heresy that is anti-Christ (pro ancient Jehovah) and has been threatening the universalist truth of Christ from the first few centuries onward. It is a travesty of human corruption and distortion that blasphemes the TRUE NATURE of God as revealed and exemplified by Jesus Christ!
This i agree with.
 
Old 03-03-2011, 01:44 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,199,823 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
Yes, I WAS a Christian up until perhaps a decade ago, but I was of the fundamentalist flavor believing in a heaven and hell and that "saved" folks went to heaven and unsaved folks wound up in hell (I began to believe this less and less as time went on). The concept of universalism was foreign to me and without even listening to its details, me and many others like me would discard it as pure heresy and nothing more than a cheap excuse for folks to get over in the end. Just from being here, I see it is far more prevalent and persistent than I thought and now I am seeing this:

Christian author's book sparks charges of heresy CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs
The way that i feel about it is that if the religious elite and the champions of the traditions of men are calling you an heretic and seeking your downfall, then you are in very good company and are very likely doing something right.
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