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Old 03-03-2011, 02:52 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,208,545 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Well there should be no surprise here. For Scripture teaches us that the time would come when men would not endure sound doctrine. And it also tells us that before the man of sin would be revealed, there would be a great falling away from the faith. Even my wife in recent days has been beginning to notice some very strange messages that are being preached from the pulpit. I believe the purpose of universalism. Will help aid the future Anti Christ with his one world religion. Considering all the other Biblical prophecies. Universalism would play into them very well at this time.
LOL ... Yeah i'm sure the "man of sin/antichrist" will be telling everyone that God will save all people, while he is hacking off the heads of anyone who opposes him and the worship of his image.

It all makes so much sense now! ...

What a Joke ...

 
Old 03-03-2011, 02:53 PM
 
964 posts, read 717,859 times
Reputation: 393
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Traditional Christendom is the 2000+ year old heresy that is anti-Christ (pro ancient Jehovah) and has been threatening the universalist truth of Christ from the first few centuries onward. It is a travesty of human corruption and distortion that blasphemes the TRUE NATURE of God as revealed and exemplified by Jesus Christ!

The devil is no dummy.
 
Old 03-03-2011, 02:57 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,208,545 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Yes, not to mention that traditional Christianity is inherantly the result of that falling away.
Yeah, it doesn't take a Genius to recognize when the church "fell away" from the truth of sound doctrine and began torturing and murdering millions of people all in the name of Jesus.

It just goes to show how some people ignore the inconvenient facts of history whenever it does not support there own agenda to remember them.
 
Old 03-03-2011, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,116,987 times
Reputation: 866
People will kill for their doctrine. And Christianity is not immune.

Peace,
Brian
 
Old 03-03-2011, 03:26 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,722,697 times
Reputation: 1351
I just remembered after reading some comments in this thread that supposedly threads about hell and universalism are not allowed nowadays or something to that effect, right? Actually I wish that was not the case because, despite the verbal wars that have gone on because of these topics, it highlights (to me) the idea that Christianity (in ANY form) could NEVER, in my mind, be a viable option for me. Nothing's change in 2,000 years. From the start it was a movement of different sects arguing over even the most basic of things, be it the camp of Paul and his Gentile leanings and the Jerusalem Ebionites fussing over Jewish law and liberation from said laws or Arians and trinitarians.

That being said, as now an observer on the outside looking in, I would agree with the non-universalists. I think the bible is rather clear about its hell fire and brimstone message and its reality that some folks are just going to end up on god's bad side. Then again, maybe even as far back as those days, there were ALREADY universalists and non-universalists penning the pages of today's bible. This may have been a reality IF, as Bart Erhman has suggested, we read the bible vertically as opposed to horizontally where folks assume that EVERY single word in the book reads like an unbroken thread. Authors may have had their own theology that differed from that of others, but I digress on that tangent for the moment.

As I was saying, I would side with the non-universalists. Of course I believe the bible is not worth taking serious so I don't agree with their interpretations in that it is supposed to affect my life or that I am supposed to "measure up" to it, but I agree that the bible (for the most part) makes no provisions for some kind of salvation after the fact because the bible, in great part, is about rewards and punishmens. I think; however, this upsets the sensibilities of kind hearted people compounded by the fact it makes their god look like a complete a-hole of a sadistic monster. The non-universalist could care less because they are just happy they're "saved" and on their way to happy land, but others can't accept the idea that some tyrant god is busy creating humans to later fry them forever in some eternal fiery pit. I agree with the universalist that the passages used by the other group to justify their interpretations are used and have been used over the centuries to instill fear and maintain control, but I don't agree that sanitizing the passages into some "spiritual babble" that tries to remove the odious tone makes sense either because it does injustice to the true intention of the passages within their historical and theological context.
 
Old 03-03-2011, 03:33 PM
 
964 posts, read 717,859 times
Reputation: 393
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Yeah, it doesn't take a Genius to recognize when the church "fell away" from the truth of sound doctrine and began torturing and murdering millions of people all in the name of Jesus.

It just goes to show how some people ignore the inconvenient facts of history whenever it does not support there own agenda to remember them.

"torturing millions of people...."

Like father, like son. They're only doing what they think God is doing.
 
Old 03-03-2011, 03:52 PM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,569,887 times
Reputation: 4461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero 7 View Post
"torturing millions of people...."

Like father, like son. They're only doing what they think God is doing.
Bingo - what enters your mind when you think about God is the most important thing about you.
 
Old 03-03-2011, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,572 posts, read 31,963,402 times
Reputation: 9422
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
Yes, I WAS a Christian up until perhaps a decade ago, but I was of the fundamentalist flavor believing in a heaven and hell and that "saved" folks went to heaven and unsaved folks wound up in hell (I began to believe this less and less as time went on). The concept of universalism was foreign to me and without even listening to its details, me and many others like me would discard it as pure heresy and nothing more than a cheap excuse for folks to get over in the end. Just from being here, I see it is far more prevalent and persistent than I thought and now I am seeing this:

Christian author's book sparks charges of heresy – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs
Looks like the thread has been flooded with old UR talking points. They usually bring up the topic of hell when they want to get a thread closed. Anyway, just now when I was driving home, they were talking about this book and universalism in the Moody Radio. Dr Erwin Lutzer was there as a guest and he was taking questions from the listeners. It was very interesting.
 
Old 03-03-2011, 04:14 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,722,697 times
Reputation: 1351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Looks like the thread has been flooded with old UR talking points. They usually bring up the topic of hell when they want to get a thread closed. Anyway, just now when I was driving home, they were talking about this book and universalism in the Moody Radio. Dr Erwin Lutzer was there as a guest and he was taking questions from the listeners. It was very interesting.
Lutzer is still around??? What about the old dude who used to field questions on Wednesday nights? That guy's gotta be nearing 183 years old by now. I used to listen to him faithfully.
 
Old 03-03-2011, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,116,987 times
Reputation: 866
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
I just remembered after reading some comments in this thread that supposedly threads about hell and universalism are not allowed nowadays or something to that effect, right? Actually I wish that was not the case because, despite the verbal wars that have gone on because of these topics, it highlights (to me) the idea that Christianity (in ANY form) could NEVER, in my mind, be a viable option for me. Nothing's change in 2,000 years. From the start it was a movement of different sects arguing over even the most basic of things, be it the camp of Paul and his Gentile leanings and the Jerusalem Ebionites fussing over Jewish law and liberation from said laws or Arians and trinitarians.

That being said, as now an observer on the outside looking in, I would agree with the non-universalists. I think the bible is rather clear about its hell fire and brimstone message and its reality that some folks are just going to end up on god's bad side. Then again, maybe even as far back as those days, there were ALREADY universalists and non-universalists penning the pages of today's bible. This may have been a reality IF, as Bart Erhman has suggested, we read the bible vertically as opposed to horizontally where folks assume that EVERY single word in the book reads like an unbroken thread. Authors may have had their own theology that differed from that of others, but I digress on that tangent for the moment.

As I was saying, I would side with the non-universalists. Of course I believe the bible is not worth taking serious so I don't agree with their interpretations in that it is supposed to affect my life or that I am supposed to "measure up" to it, but I agree that the bible (for the most part) makes no provisions for some kind of salvation after the fact because the bible, in great part, is about rewards and punishmens. I think; however, this upsets the sensibilities of kind hearted people compounded by the fact it makes their god look like a complete a-hole of a sadistic monster. The non-universalist could care less because they are just happy they're "saved" and on their way to happy land, but others can't accept the idea that some tyrant god is busy creating humans to later fry them forever in some eternal fiery pit. I agree with the universalist that the passages used by the other group to justify their interpretations are used and have been used over the centuries to instill fear and maintain control, but I don't agree that sanitizing the passages into some "spiritual babble" that tries to remove the odious tone makes sense either because it does injustice to the true intention of the passages within their historical and theological context.
I would say that there is also a "third option", and that is, that what in God's words seems threatening, may never come to pass.

Remember, like many in Christendom today, the Jews were also expecting a mighty earthly King who would come and destroy all their enemies so that they could live in peace.

What they got was Jesus, who laid down His Life for them! A True King, but this time for the whole world, not just them! And certainly not what they expected!

God ordained the Law, and then He fulfilled it Himself so we wouldn't have to try..

Jesus was a scandal because He was not what the Jews were expecting. Especially someone who dared to say, "you have heard... BUT I SAY..."
--Scandalous!!

Will it happen all over again, this time for the Gentiles?

Just a thought..

Blessings,
brian
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