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What if I party hard, drink senseless, snort up like Charlie Sheen and die rich with a beautiful woman on top of me in some spacious hotel? In the end I'm in regardless, right?
Again, I kind of have to laugh here. You are painting a beautiful picture LOL - is this how you want to go out?
What you propose above is really a hypothetical, but you have to look at reality. Look at the real Charlie Sheen. This guy has been struggling with drugs and alcohol for decades. He has a serious addiction problem. It has hurt him mentally and physically, and now he's getting some bad press again.
There is no getting around the consequences. Hypotheticals like "drink senseless", "snort up like Charlie Sheen" etc. HAVE CONSEQUENCES in real life.
Sometimes the consequence is YOU DIE at the age of 20 and miss out on having a life where you get to see your 23 grand children have their own kids.
Other times the consequence is you live for 80 years constantly fighting a battle with addiction to drugs.
Again, I kind of have to laugh here. You are painting a beautiful picture LOL - is this how you want to go out?
What you propose above is really a hypothetical, but you have to look at reality. Look at the real Charlie Sheen. This guy has been struggling with drugs and alcohol for decades. He has a serious addiction problem. It has hurt him mentally and physically, and now he's getting some bad press again.
There is no getting around the consequences. Hypotheticals like "drink senseless", "snort up like Charlie Sheen" etc. HAVE CONSEQUENCES in real life.
Sometimes the consequence is YOU DIE at the age of 20 and miss out on having a life where you get to see your 23 grand children have their own kids.
Other times the consequence is you live for 80 years constantly fighting a battle with addiction to drugs.
Not only that... but all of this stuff on the outside seems "woo hoo great!" to some, but reality is that on the inside... he's rotting away.
I mean, it's just true.
There is nothing "loving" about being a lush. Being selfish, indulgent, not caring about other's needs except for your own. Being extravagant.. none of this stuff gives you peace. It will give you a momentary little thrill, but it doesn't last because it's not REAL.
LOVE is what gives you peace.
We're all looking for love... and one day we're all going to end up finding what we're looking for. A lot of us go about looking for it in the wrong places.
People who envy those who "get to do what they want"... y'know it says a lot about what they hold to be valuable in this world.
Go ahead, snort a nose full of coke, drink to oblivion, but when you wake up in the morning, you're going to find you are right where you started at.
Trying to grasp and hold onto LOVE. and the cycle will continue.
Until it becomes clear that what you are holding onto is not love.
Then you run and hide and escape from it all over again...
1 Corinthians 13
is the true meaning of love.
And when you hold it up to whatever you think is love at the time... the contrast is pretty startling.
I feel sorry for that guy... because I see someone in NEED.
And all around him people are putting him on a pedestal and pointing fingers and laughing at his suffering. It makes me sad that we as human beings... do that to each other. That we don't see suffering when it is staring us in the face. That we don't love our neighbor as we should.
(I'm not talking about anyone here, I'm just talking about all of us in general, really.) We were all children once... what has happened to us?
Edited to add: and when I say "we're all just looking for love..." what I mean is, in every sense of the word. Not just feeling love. But experiencing love fully. Loving ourselves, loving others and being consumed with love. We're learning. What it is. And what it isn't. And the only way to do this is to experience the contrast.
Last edited by .sparrow.; 03-04-2011 at 12:41 PM..
Yes, but you are presupposing absolutely nothing happens after death other than "yay, free pass into heaven".
So, your scenarios above are not complete. If we are going by scripture here (or how UR interprets the scripture), there is a resurrection and then this idea of shame and regret over what one did and even repentance. This is the judgment. What this will entail in specifics is anyone's guess - but its probably not going to be "fun" - in the same way that it is not "fun" when you get caught stealing a candy bar (or perhaps something not so innocent as a candy bar) and your dad makes you take it back to the store and then you have to do community service or whatever. When you are a kid, shame/embarrassment can be unbearable. Magnify this up a 1000x for your whole life - for every action you did and "got away with".
Another thing to consider is what are the real consequences here. You say someone could murder for sport and then die peacefully - but really is that a good life? Is that a life you would actually want? I don't think it is.
Consider Hitler. People might say "He got away with it". He murdered millions, and in then end committed suicide. Did he die without consequence? Look at it this way: would you want to be Hitler? Is that the "ideal carnal life"? No of course not.
I wouldn't want to be Hitler. He lived a horrible loveless life, had a failed love affair, and ended up committing suicide, while being responsible for the pain and anguish of millions.
Hitler didn't have a wife. Hitler didn't have children. He missed out on the simple joys of having children and grand children and living in loving relationship. There were a lot of consequences that Hitler suffered in his life simply by the way things played out. That's not to say there might or might not be more consequences in the after life for him.
But to suggest that one can murder "for sport" in this life, and die peacefully, and suggest that he did not feel the consequences in this life is to underestimate the issue.
Again, human nature often could care less about those unknown possibilities (considering we are speculating here). What we see is that we still get in in the FINAL analysis. People do things all the time and take risks IF they feel that it will be okay when its all over.
As for Hitler, that is an extreme example of a person who we KNEW about. There are serial killers walking about the place, probably living normal lives and blending in who will never face punishment in this life. If all they are going to get in the afterlife is some temporary shame before getting their keys to the mansion next door to Mother Theresa, I'm not so sure they would care.
If everyone is allowed into heaven as UR supposes, then heaven would eventually become contaminated like the earth; that would be no heaven at all, as it would be more of the same. But, guess what? Only the holy and righteous will enter heaven, and sinners will be shut out. If you are bound by even just one willful sin, you won't be entering heaven. If you don't believe me, look at what happened to Adam and Eve's paradise; it was stripped from them just as God had warned. But, the devil will say, "ye shall not surely die". Go ahead, listen to that liar, but you'll damn your soul.
If everyone is allowed into heaven as UR supposes, then heaven would eventually become contaminated like the earth; that would be no heaven at all, as it would be more of the same. But, guess what? Only the holy and righteous will enter heaven, and sinners will be shut out. If you are bound by even just one willful sin, you won't be entering heaven. If you don't believe me, look at what happened to Adam and Eve's paradise; it was stripped from them just as God had warned. But, the devil will say, "ye shall not surely die". Go ahead, listen to that liar, but you'll damn your soul.
I remember living under this kind of interpretation and the pressure that comes along with it and it was NOT pretty at all. You walk around like some paranoid freak, always uttering a prayer of forgiveness under your breath "just in case." That was literal torment for a 14 year old like me at the time. Glad I left ALL of that behind because that is NO way to live and maintain one's sanity. Good luck with that, but then again, there's an APP for that.
Again, human nature often could care less about those unknown possibilities (considering we are speculating here). What we see is that we still get in in the FINAL analysis. People do things all the time and take risks IF they feel that it will be okay when its all over.
Sure that is a possibility, still doesn't mean they won't suffer consequences for their actions.
Quote:
As for Hitler, that is an extreme example of a person who we KNEW about. There are serial killers walking about the place, probably living normal lives and blending in who will never face punishment in this life. If all they are going to get in the afterlife is some temporary shame before getting their keys to the mansion next door to Mother Theresa, I'm not so sure they would care.
I think you are underestimating the consequences and speaking in hypotheticals.
Serial killer living a "normal life"? Really? This serial killer living a "normal life" is a great loving individual, loves his wife, loves his kids, takes them to soccer games, helps out the community, is a great all around guy. He's completely well adjusted, no mental issues at all. Oh yeah, he's also a serial killer. Killed a whole family just last week. Got away scott free. No worries.
Sorry, I must use the following face:
Um, yeah, right.
I would suggest that being a serial killer is a consequence in itself. You either have serious mental issues or are living a life hiding guilt in which your own conscious will ultimately destroy you.
Sure that is a possibility, still doesn't mean they won't suffer consequences for their actions.
I think you are underestimating the consequences and speaking in hypotheticals.
Serial killer living a "normal life"? Really? This serial killer living a "normal life" is a great loving individual, loves his wife, loves his kids, takes them to soccer games, helps out the community, is a great all around guy. He's completely well adjusted, no mental issues at all. Oh yeah, he's also a serial killer. Killed a whole family just last week. Got away scott free. No worries.
Sorry, I must use the following face:
Um, yeah, right.
I would suggest that being a serial killer is a consequence in itself. You either have serious mental issues or are living a life hiding guilt in which your own conscious will ultimately destroy you.
I don't deny the "inner demons," but again, they can take comfort in one thing - it will ULTIMATELY be okay for them in the end. So why fight the struggle to indulge in the dark side that keeps calling. Why fight to be what they can't maintain? Why wake up from the drunk drug induced slumber that numbs and masks the pain? It will ALL pass and when you wake up on the other side, a temporary course of embarrassment and shame and from there, it's an eternity of bliss.
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