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Old 03-03-2011, 12:35 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,717,352 times
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Yes, I WAS a Christian up until perhaps a decade ago, but I was of the fundamentalist flavor believing in a heaven and hell and that "saved" folks went to heaven and unsaved folks wound up in hell (I began to believe this less and less as time went on). The concept of universalism was foreign to me and without even listening to its details, me and many others like me would discard it as pure heresy and nothing more than a cheap excuse for folks to get over in the end. Just from being here, I see it is far more prevalent and persistent than I thought and now I am seeing this:

Christian author's book sparks charges of heresy – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs

 
Old 03-03-2011, 12:56 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,680,006 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
Yes, I WAS a Christian up until perhaps a decade ago, but I was of the fundamentalist flavor believing in a heaven and hell and that "saved" folks went to heaven and unsaved folks wound up in hell (I began to believe this less and less as time went on). The concept of universalism was foreign to me and without even listening to its details, me and many others like me would discard it as pure heresy and nothing more than a cheap excuse for folks to get over in the end. Just from being here, I see it is far more prevalent and persistent than I thought and now I am seeing this:

Christian author's book sparks charges of heresy – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs




Well there should be no surprise here. For Scripture teaches us that the time would come when men would not endure sound doctrine. And it also tells us that before the man of sin would be revealed, there would be a great falling away from the faith. Even my wife in recent days has been beginning to notice some very strange messages that are being preached from the pulpit. I believe the purpose of universalism. Will help aid the future Anti Christ with his one world religion. Considering all the other Biblical prophecies. Universalism would play into them very well at this time.
 
Old 03-03-2011, 01:01 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,409,710 times
Reputation: 682
Indeed.

"Universalism" challenges the traditional orthodoxy which is fear based (even if the word "H-E-double-hockey-sticks" is not mentioned at every Sunday sermon) - therefore it must be deemed heresy lest the power to control the unlearned masses be lost, to put it bluntly. Whether people realize this or not, that is how it is.

Atheism has also filled that position, though some can more easily see that "YES there is a God", so cannot will themselves to become atheists. For the fundamentalists, its much simpler to say the atheists are going to hell - the atheists don't care so much because they don't believe in God anyway (yes I realize they do get annoyed by it though).

Christian universalism or universal reconciliation is the real threat to the power base of orthodoxy because the teachings of universal reconciliation are 100% based on the scriptures, the same scriptures tradition has used to enforce their power base. Therefore accusations must be made of "twisting scripture" and "bad interpretation"... but who is really doing the twisting?

Its like you said yourself InsaneInDaMembrane:
"The concept of universalism was foreign to me and without even listening to its details, me and many others like me would discard it as pure heresy and nothing more than a cheap excuse for folks to get over in the end"

Unfortunately this is the perspective of many. Without even listening to the details, many simply deem it as heresy simply because it disagrees with their core teachings, or because they don't like the idea of everyone being saved.
 
Old 03-03-2011, 01:04 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,409,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Well there should be no surprise here. For Scripture teaches us that the time would come when men would not endure sound doctrine. And it also tells us that before the man of sin would be revealed, there would be a great falling away from the faith. Even my wife in recent days has been beginning to notice some very strange messages that are being preached from the pulpit. I believe the purpose of universalism. Will help aid the future Anti Christ with his one world religion. Considering all the other Biblical prophecies. Universalism would play into them very well at this time.
And the irony is men stopped "enduring sound doctrine" the moment they embraced the idea that some souls will be left to suffer endlessly and that some super charming anti-Christ guy is going to deceive the whole world while the good guys are raptured away.

Men stopped "enduring sound doctrine" not too many years after Christ was crucified.
 
Old 03-03-2011, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,520 posts, read 31,917,431 times
Reputation: 9413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Well there should be no surprise here. For Scripture teaches us that the time would come when men would not endure sound doctrine. And it also tells us that before the man of sin would be revealed, there would be a great falling away from the faith. Even my wife in recent days has been beginning to notice some very strange messages that are being preached from the pulpit. I believe the purpose of universalism. Will help aid the future Anti Christ with his one world religion. Considering all the other Biblical prophecies. Universalism would play into them very well at this time.
Indeed. Well said. The Bible foretold the arrival of such teachings. This is why you need to put on the armor of God.

Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
 
Old 03-03-2011, 01:06 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,680,006 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Indeed.

"Universalism" challenges the traditional orthodoxy which is fear based (even if the word H-E-double-hockey-sticks is not mentioned at every Sunday sermon) - therefore it must be deemed heresy lest the power to control the unlearned masses be lost, to put it bluntly.

Atheism has also filled that position, though some can more easily see that "YES there is a God", so cannot will themselves to become atheists. For the fundamentalists, its much simpler to say the atheists are going to hell - the atheists don't care so much because they don't believe in God anyway (yes I realize they do get annoyed by it though).

Christian universalism or universal reconciliation is the real threat to the power base of orthodoxy because the teachings of universal reconciliation are 100% based on the scriptures, the same scriptures tradition has used to enforce their power base. Therefore accusations must be made of "twisting scripture" and "bad interpretation"... but who is really doing the twisting?

Its like you said yourself InsaneInDaMembrane:
"The concept of universalism was foreign to me and without even listening to its details, me and many others like me would discard it as pure heresy and nothing more than a cheap excuse for folks to get over in the end"

Unfortunately this is the perspective of many. Without even listening to the details, many simply deem it as heresy simply because it disagrees with their core teachings, or because they don't like the idea of everyone being saved.





Most real Christians reject it because universalism disagrees with Gods Word. Jesus Himself teaches us that few will enter into the narrow Gate that leads to eternal life. And He teaches us that most people would enter the wide gate that leads to destruction.
 
Old 03-03-2011, 01:08 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,239 posts, read 20,001,723 times
Reputation: 2108
Why i am no longer part of mainstream christianity is because there is no sound doctrine left in it.

This link is not in anyway meant to be offensive but to show how unsound the doctrine of the church is today as we know it, i hope if you check the link out it will cause you to question what you really believe

Hypocrisy
 
Old 03-03-2011, 01:10 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,680,006 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
And the irony is men stopped "enduring sound doctrine" the moment they embraced the idea that some souls will be left to suffer endlessly and that some super charming anti-Christ guy is going to deceive the whole world while the good guys are raptured away.

Men stopped "enduring sound doctrine" not too many years after Christ was crucified.
Well of course only someone who does not believe in the Bible would make a statement like that. So what is it that you believe?
 
Old 03-03-2011, 01:12 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,680,006 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Why i am no longer part of mainstream christianity is because there is no sound doctrine left in it.

This link is not in anyway meant to be offensive but to show how unsound the doctrine of the church is today as we know it, i hope if you check the link out it will cause you to question what you really believe

Hypocrisy
I'm not to big on todays church. Yet I have embraced God's Word found in the Bible.
 
Old 03-03-2011, 01:18 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,409,710 times
Reputation: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Well of course only someone who does not believe in the Bible would make a statement like that. So what is it that you believe?
Campbell34, you have to realize something here. I'm saying this with all sincerity. I 100% believe the scriptures. And I believe it does not speak of an end times "anti-christ guy". And I believe it does not speak of people being separated forever either.

If I could somehow show you, I would. Lord knows I've tried in this forum for the past 2 years. Universalism DOES NOT disagree with God's word.

Lets talk about the "super charming deceptive anti-christ guy" for a moment. Is that what you understand is in the bible (if not that is ok)? Anyway, scripture DOES NOT speak of this concept at all. Scripture says there are many anti-christs plural, who have been around since Christ was on earth. That is what scripture says. Yet many believe there is going to be this future "super charming deceptive anti-christ guy" that is still yet to come. They are not enduring sound doctrine.
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