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Old 10-25-2013, 11:47 AM
 
12,030 posts, read 9,279,269 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
Julian, I DO believe that the Bible is inspired, but not in the pharisaical way that one poster above thinks everyone should believe (in effect saying, my only brother is a twin brother). In fact, Jesus fought against the people that viewed the OT in that fashion--calling them vipers (as did John) and stating that they were missing the weightier matters of law. The pharisees were dogmatics, believing only they held the truth about the scripture. Plenty of those still thumping their Bibles today.

Were the authors of the Bible flawed? Of course----they were men. Men writing about their faith. Men writing to persuade others about their faith. When I dig down through all the scribal additions and apologetics written into Scripture I still find more meaning in those for me than I find in your more tradition based faith. But if one believes that God could work through flawed men like Abraham who lied about his wife being his sister, through Jacob who deceived his father into giving him the blessing of the first-borne, through Sampson deceived by Delilah, and through David who committed adultery and then murder to cover it up---then it's equally possible to believe God can work through flawed scripture.
I am certain that the Bible writers were inspired, but they were still people from that era and they believed in many myths. The OT is the mythological history of the Jews. The God of the OT has so many flaws that by logical deduction it is easy to say it was not written by God. Marcion wanted a Bible with only the NT and no OT. He was declared a heretic by the early Church.

At least the NT has a Christian message that wants people to be good people. The essence of Christianity of the Sermon on the Mount and the parables. Fundamentalists are obsessed with salvation and eternal life which I find too selfish for my taste. They also see God as imperfect by implying God demands adoration.


Quote:
Fundamentalists, and I used to be one, haven't really found all the depth of God's love. That's why they spend so much time protecting the Bible as if it were a Golden Calf instead of a window into the heart of God. If you look carefully at the window (Scripture), there are flaws, chips, cracks. But the purpose of the window is to see God. Spending all your time trying to polish and repair the flaws and cracks, means you never have time to see into the heart of the One you worship.
Who would not want Scriptures? God worship without Scriptures is very hard. There is nothing more powerful than to say lets read the "word of God". Doing this with no SCRIPTURES is hard.

Quote:
But one of the traditions that won out in the Council of Nicene was that Jesus was God FROM THE BEGINNING. The point I was making in my original post is that there is an argument from some that Jesus never viewed Himself as God in the same way we Christians do now and the flawed scripture CAN support that view if one chooses to believe it. In fact, there were a large group of Christians who felt the Spirit of God came upon Jesus at His baptism ("Behold, my son, in whom I am well pleased") and which left Him at the cross ("My God, My God why hast thou forsaken me!!") The early church won the scriptural battle about Jesus being God from the beginning, Emperor Constantine banished Christians holding the other view from Christendom, and then began a thousand year reign of atrocities to root out that heretical teaching--all done in the name of God by that early church!!!
At some point the early Christians realized they needed a Creed. Like I said, worshiping without a sacred textbook is quite difficult.

Quote:
I do not discount traditions of the Catholic church nor does it bother me that the Church holds them on par with scripture. I just don't understand them so they are not part of my faith practice.
Traditions with capital T or little t enhance the spirit and help people worship. No different than "fundies" worshiping with Scriptures in hand. A great performance of Schubert's Ave maria enhances our connection with God. And if this is done with the Virgin Mary it is no big deal to God. By definition God cannot be petty or anal.

Quote:
Jesus admonishment to "seek and ye shall find" was not static. It is ongoing. Once one believes they have the answer, I'm pretty certain they've lost it. As for me and my house, we will never stop seeking and trying to grow.
I agree!
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Old 10-27-2013, 10:40 AM
 
238 posts, read 269,402 times
Reputation: 50

Only in 70+ verses!
One example: Scripture repeats that Jesus was the Creator of all things!
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Old 10-27-2013, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Tucson, Arizona
987 posts, read 1,112,600 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evangelist-77 View Post

Only in 70+ verses!
One example: Scripture repeats that Jesus was the Creator of all things!
Did Jesus Himself not say that He could do nothing of His own power, but that everything He did was by the power of His Father? The Father gets His power from no one, it is inherent in Himself.
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Old 10-27-2013, 01:20 PM
 
2,541 posts, read 2,526,815 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarletWren View Post
Did Jesus Himself not say that He could do nothing of His own power, but that everything He did was by the power of His Father? The Father gets His power from no one, it is inherent in Himself.
The flesh is self. One of fruit of the Spirit is "self control" that is to say, control over the excess desires of the flesh/self. Of coarse Jesus couldn't do any thing spiritual with the power of flesh. No one can. Jesus says to deny yourself daily to do God's will and you will receive the Spirit and have treasure in Heaven.

Jesus was in a state perfect self control because He had the Spirit without measure who does the work without effort. He is Son of Man because He is in a flesh body but Son of God doing all things of the Father. He is in the Father and the Father in Him as one and therefor God on the earth but in the form of a Son limited only by time and space as in one place at a time whereas the Spirit is omnipresent.
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Old 11-07-2013, 01:04 AM
 
2,981 posts, read 2,915,735 times
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- I've found no scripture which says that Spirits are Persons.

So The Holy Spirit OF God-The Spirit OF God's Holiness, is not a person.
And not the person OF Him.

A person is of flesh and bone.

"...His Son Whom He appointed heir of all things, by whom He also made the worlds,
who being a brightness from His glory and an image of His being..." - Heb.1:3 [Greek]
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Old 11-07-2013, 12:41 PM
 
9,945 posts, read 4,888,658 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RevelationWriter View Post
- I've found no scripture which says that Spirits are Persons.
So The Holy Spirit OF God-The Spirit OF God's Holiness, is not a person.
And not the person OF Him.
A person is of flesh and bone.
"...His Son Whom He appointed heir of all things, by whom He also made the worlds,
who being a brightness from His glory and an image of His being..." - Heb.1:3 [Greek]
Even the spirits in prison of 1st Peter 3 vs 19,20; 2nd Peter 2 vs 4,5 are Not persons but angelic spirits.- Jude verse 6
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Old 11-07-2013, 12:46 PM
 
9,945 posts, read 4,888,658 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evangelist-77 View Post

One example: Scripture repeats that Jesus was the Creator of all things!
Gospel writer John wrote at Revelation 3 v 14 that Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God.

God had No beginning according to Psalm 90 v 2. Only God was before the beginning.
Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.

All things come through Jesus as God's only-begotten Son.- Ephesians 3 v 9
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Old 11-07-2013, 01:04 PM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,267,885 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Gospel writer John wrote at Revelation 3 v 14 that Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God.

God had No beginning according to Psalm 90 v 2. Only God was before the beginning.
Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.

All things come through Jesus as God's only-begotten Son.- Ephesians 3 v 9
Yes, even the thought that Christ was eternally existing within the Father fails when it is stated by believers in that, that Christ comes from God or proceeds from God, etc. That means he is not equal to the Father, who proceeds from no one.

Rev 3:14 is absolute due to the grammar. Some try to substitute another meaning for "beginning" (Which the Greek allows for in certain applications) but the grammar prohibits that.
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Old 11-07-2013, 05:00 PM
 
264 posts, read 349,294 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluescityleon View Post
If so where?.........if not what was the message?......world Peace?......I think the message among others is learn to care, learn to get along, Foster good will. But not to the exclusion of the rest of the messages.

Let me ask you something, do you think that a man is only as good as his word?
Well, Jesus is not the Father, but it was THE WORD that became flesh and dwelt among us.
He is equal to God for God is exactly as His Word and He never changes.

In the beginning was THE WORD.....
How did God create all things? By His Word.
John 20:28
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
KJV

Notice the two different spellings and they both are talking about GOD, Yet one is LORD the Father and the other is Lord Jesus or THE WORD, yet you DO consider them to be the same God RIGHT? You will find Lord God, all throughout the OT and they are JESUS while LORD GOD is the Father yet ONE GOD.
Gen 18:1-3
18:1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
KJV

How about this where THE WORD of the LORD came to Abraham and we see THE WORD is SEEN IN A VISION and Heard. This is Jesus and we always consider it GOD that is spoken of because it is
Gen 15:1-8
15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
2 And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?
3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.
4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
7 And he said unto him, I am the LORD that brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land to inherit it.
8 And he said, Lord GOD, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it?
KJV

Last edited by afaithfulone4u; 11-07-2013 at 05:21 PM.. Reason: underline
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Old 11-07-2013, 05:07 PM
 
91 posts, read 97,269 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by RevelationWriter View Post
- I've found no scripture which says that Spirits are Persons.

So The Holy Spirit OF God-The Spirit OF God's Holiness, is not a person.
And not the person OF Him.

A person is of flesh and bone.

"...His Son Whom He appointed heir of all things, by whom He also made the worlds,
who being a brightness from His glory and an image of His being..." - Heb.1:3 [Greek]
Pre-Earth Life
Job 38:1-7 Ecclesiastes 12:7 Jeremiah 1:5 John 8:56 Revelation 12:4, 7-9
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