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sciota, as stated before: "God is not a man." Jesus in the Bible says "God is spirit."
God, being spirit, is everywhere. Jesus is not everywhere. Jesus is at the right hand of God.
Jesus is a man. The man, Christ Jesus is the mediator between God and man. Therefore He is not the God he is mediating for. You dig, man? <grin>
Phil 2:7...I don't dig it man...a man doesn't take on the likeness of a man, because he is a man. God, however, can take on the likeness of a man.
You dig?
Jesus is not on the right hand of God, He is God, on the throne, and He, and God ARE the Temple. Dig?
Phil 2:7...I don't dig it man...a man doesn't take on the likeness of a man, because he is a man. God, however, can take on the likeness of a man.
You dig?
This doesn’t mean that Jesus only appeared as a man, when he was in fact ‘god’. Rather the emphasis is upon the fact that Jesus truly was human. As Heb. 2:17 says, [paraphrasing here] Jesus was made like his brethren in all things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks
Jesus is not on the right hand of God, He is God, on the throne, and He, and God ARE the Temple. Dig?
This doesn’t mean that Jesus only appeared as a man, when he was in fact ‘god’. Rather the emphasis is upon the fact that Jesus truly was human. As Heb. 2:17 says, [paraphrasing here] Jesus was made like his brethren in all things.
By what exegesis do you arrive at this conclusion? The syntactical forms in Phil 2:7 are in reference to God, not Christ, as they are so in all of the texts regarding this type of characterization. You are interpreting straight English, as opposed to the root language, which defines the English, hence the theology of the trinity. Can you counter this by using the smae grammitical hermeneutics and arrive at a different conclusion? I have not seen, in all my studies, this approach, been done, and determinately arrived at the conclusion that He is not God in the Flesh, and as a matter of fact, in my experience, those that have, have come to the realization that they were simply....wrong..
A quick question...how can you differentiate the two, Christ and God, when God is the ONLY the first and last, Alpha and Omega, and Christ assumes that role as well? Simply put, it is a simple thematic conclusion.
How can you arrive at the conclusion that God is the ONLY Savior, yet Christ is as well? This pits folks like yourselves in a bit of a predicament, and I have not seen as of yet, a proper rebuttal. Just a lot of gymnastics.
Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Tireland, it is said that "mighty god" could be translated: "mighty ruler", "mighty hero", or "divine hero".
Again, it does not. Verses 2:6-11 illuminate the antecedent imperative of verse five. The clause, "He made Himself of no reputation," more literally reads, "He emptied Himself." Instead of asserting His rights to the expression of the essence of Deity, He waived His rights and relinquished them.
Compared to the fullness of God, He must indeed have felt empty once He gave up "the form of God"! The word form in verse 7 is the same Greek word as in verse 6. The grammatical structure of the sentence demands that the "taking the form of a servant" preceded and caused His "making Himself of no reputation." Remember, form is the outward expression of inner nature. The sentence, though, indicates an exchange of such expression. Therefore, being a servant was not something of His inner nature that had been previously expressed. It was not His usual mode of outward expression. Before, He conveyed glory and sovereignty over all things, but afterward, He manifested servant hood, in the man Christ Jesus, the mediator.
The two movements in verses 6-11 trace Christ's journey into human life, then through that life to death on a cross. Though that journey involved "emptying himself" of power and status (kenosis), it is not the journey of a victim of someone else's oppressive policies or actions. Rather, it is a path freely chosen from a position of power. Christ begins in God's "form" and equal to God. This is more than an affirmation that Jesus of Nazareth, like every human being, is in the image of God. Here he is on a par with God, equal to God, just as he takes on "human form" verse 7 and becomes fully human. Instead of remaining in his initial place of power, or trading it for a human role of honor and prestige, he lives as the lowliest of human beings, a slave, and accepts the form of execution reserved for slaves, namely death on a cross verse 8.
The phrase “though he was in the form of God” relates to the divinity or deity of Christ. The Apostle Paul could have used the word sch‘ma had he intended to say that Jesus Christ was only similar to God in appearance. As opposed to morfh, sch‘ma can not refer to anything but external appearances. The word morfh also appears in v.7 of the passage. The second occurrence is antithetical to the first; morfh‘ and qeou stands in contrast to morfh and douvlou. Therefore, if we are to interpret the first occurrence as pertaining to external appearance, the second occurrence should also refer to external appearance. Yet, it is obvious that Paul did not mean that Jesus Christ had the external appearance of a slave but rather, Paul shows in verse 8 that Jesus Christ acted as a slave. The context then demands that morfh refers to the intrinsic or essential qualities of a thing, in this case, Jesus Christ was in very nature,God and slave. Though the Apostle Paul does not use the word morfh in any other writings, he does use cognate forms of the root morf in Romans 2:20 and 12:2, 2 Corinthians 3:18, Galatians 4:19, Philippians 3:10 and 3:21 and 2 Timothy 3:5. In each instance, the cognate form implies participation in the character or nature of something. Though the Apostle Paul does not use the word morfh in any other writings, he does use cognate forms of the root morf in Romans 2:20 and 12:2, 2 Corinthians 3:18, Galatians 4:19, Philippians 3:10 and 3:21 and 2 Timothy 3:5. In each instance, the cognate form implies participation in the character or nature of something.
The problem phrases then are crucial statements concerning the nature of Christ; that is, Jesus Christ is God and Jesus is fully human. These statements, in the context of the entire passage, countered the heresies of Docetists and Gnostics, who denied Christ’s humanity, and the heresies of those teachers who denied Christ’s divinity. These phrases strongly suggest that Philippians 2:5-11 was a creed and thereby, gives us insight into the initial purpose that the creed may have had outside of the context of this letter. The creed likely had three purposes..... first, to affirm the incarnation—a Hypo-static union of God and man. Second..to remind early Christians that Christ was the fulfillment of Old Testament promises (hence, the Isaiah parallel) and, finally, to serve as an outline of Christ’s message, His sacrifice (hence the Johan-nine parallel) and His exaltation. By including this creed then, the Apostle Paul equipped the Philippians for the defense of the gospel.
In the larger context of the letter, however, the phrases are part of a passage that makes a crucial statement concerning the attitude of Christ, that is, Jesus Christ, as God or as God-man, possessed a spirit of humility and a heart for service. The Apostle Paul’s primary purpose for including this creed in his letter is to challenge the Philippians to “carry the cross and follow” the Lord Jesus Christ Luke 14:27. The Philippians are called to “look not to [their] own interests, but to the interest of others” and in so doing, share in “the compassion of Christ Jesus” and “the heavenly call of God in Christ Jesus” Phil 2:4, 1:8, 3:14. They are further challenged to live as Christ did and to “be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation” Phil 2:15. The Apostle Paul also illustrates in this creed that the faithfulness and obedience to which they have been called will bear fruit, just as Christ was exalted by the Father, so also is the believer given citizenship in heaven, transformed and conformed to the image of Christ Jesus Phil 2:19-21.
Certain difficulties arise in passages in which Paul uses ὁμοίωμα in connection with Christ’s manifestation on earth, Rom 8:3 and Phil 2:7.
In Rom 8:3 Paul says that God sent His Son into the world in the form of sinful flesh (ἐν ὁμοιώματι σαρκὸς ἁμαρτίας). He is emphasizing that Christ was really man. He bore a physical body fashioned according to the human body which is infected with sin. In outward form He was in no way different from other men. But Paul does not say that He came ἐν σαρκὶ ἁμαρτίας. With his ἐν ὁμοιώματι Paul is showing that for all the similarity between Christ’s physical body and that of men there is an essential difference between Christ and men. Even in His earthly life Christ was still the Son of God. This means that He became man without entering the nexus of human sin. The words ἐν ὁμοιώματι keep us from a deduction which Paul did not wish to make, namely, that Christ became subject to the power of sin, and did in fact sin. For the Apostle Paul, Christ is sinless. Sin, which clung to the physical body God assumed, had no power over Him. The ὁμοίωμα thus indicates two things, first the likeness in appearance, and secondly the distinction in essence.
Why did God send His Son into the world in the form of sinful flesh?
The Apostle answers that with this body the intrinsically sinless Christ became the representative of sinful mankind. Hence God, by giving up Christ to death, could condemn sin by destroying His body, and thus cancel it. Christ took the likeness of σὰρξ ἁμαρτίας in order that God in Christ might achieve the liberation of mankind from sin.
In Phil. 2:7, Christ took the form of a servant, came into the world in the form of a man (ἐν ὁμοιώματι ἀνθρώπων γενόμενος), and was found in fashion as a man. The Apostle Paul shows that Christ has undertaken a μεταμόρφωσις [change of inner-and-outer form]. He has renounced the form of God and assumed that of a slave. He truly became man, not merely in outward appearance, but in thought and feeling. He who was the full image of God became the full image of man. But even in this passage, where ὁμοίωμα so obviously means “form,” there is still in the background the idea of the “image” which is not identical with the original (the form of men) but like it. For in His humanity Christ differed from all other men by virtue of His consistent obedience. It is thus said in Phil. 2:7 that Christ changed His form and assumed an appearance which made Him like men. The divine figure entered history. This is only another way of saying what John says in 1:14: ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο [“the Word became (tabernacle) flesh”]. Paul does not say with any clarity how far the being of Christ was affected by this change. The words ἑαυτὸν ἐκένωσεν in verse 7 could suggest that He retained nothing of His divine nature. But the fact that as man He accomplished what no other man could do, i.e., perfect obedience, leads necessarily to the conclusion that even as man He remained at the core of His being what He had been before, God.
Even so, He is still called the everlasting Father and the Counselor.
Context defines everything...thus Father = Mighty God...such is what is called the Son.
Yes. But Isaiah 9:6 does not say “he is the mighty god”, he is the 'Everlasting' Father” or “the Counselor”. Instead, it says “his name shall be called the Mighty God, ‘Everlasting’ Father… the Counselor... .” These divine titles which beyond the shadow of a doubt apply to ‘god’ were to be given to Jesus.
Last edited by kids in america_; 03-05-2011 at 05:00 PM..
Phil 2:7...I don't dig it man...a man doesn't take on the likeness of a man, because he is a man. God, however, can take on the likeness of a man.
You dig?
Jesus is not on the right hand of God, He is God, on the throne, and He, and God ARE the Temple. Dig?
Really?
(Mat 26:64) Saying to him is Jesus, "You say it! Moreover, I am saying to you, Henceforth you shall be seeing the Son of Mankind sitting at the right hand of power and coming on the clouds of heaven."
(Mar 14:62) Now Jesus said, "I am; and you shall be seeing the Son of Mankind sitting at the right hand of power and coming with the clouds of heaven."
(Mar 16:19) The Lord, indeed, then, after speaking with them, was taken up into heaven and is seated at the right hand of God."
(Luk 22:69) Yet from now on the Son of Mankind shall be sitting at the right hand of the power of God."
(Act 2:33) Being, then, to the right hand of God exalted, besides obtaining the promise of the holy spirit from the Father, He pours out this which you are observing and hearing."
(Act 5:31) This Inaugurator and Saviour, God exalts to His right hand, to give repentance to Israel and the pardon of sins."
(Act 7:55) Now possessing the fullness of faith and holy spirit, looking intently into heaven, he perceived the glory of God, and Jesus, standing at the right hand of God,
(Act 7:56) and said, "Lo! I am beholding the heavens opened up, and the Son of Mankind standing at the right hand of God."
(Rom 8:34) Who is the Condemner? Christ Jesus, the One dying, yet rather being roused, Who is also at God's right hand, Who is pleading also for our sakes?
(Eph 1:20) which is operative in the Christ, rousing Him from among the dead and seating Him at His right hand among the celestials,
(Col 3:1) If, then, you were roused together with Christ, be seeking that which is above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God."
(Heb 1:3) Who, being the Effulgence of His glory and Emblem of His assumption, besides carrying on all by His powerful declaration, making a cleansing of sins, is seated at the right hand of the Majesty in the heights;"
(Heb 10:12) Yet This One, when offering one sacrifice for sins, is seated to a finality at the right hand of God,
(Heb 12:2) looking off to the Inaugurator and Perfecter of faith, Jesus, Who, for the joy lying before Him, endures a cross, despising the shame, besides is seated at the right hand of the throne of God."
(1Pe 3:22) Who is at God's right hand, being gone into heaven, messengers and authorities and powers being subjected to Him."
Let's see...Christ is the Alpha and Omega, so is God....He and the Father are one, not two, but one....before Abraham He was...hmmmm...survey says...Jesus is God....Him and the Father are God. When He became flesh, He temporarily surrendered His own divine prerogative, therefore utterly becoming “in the likeness of men” Phil. 2:7 in every way, except without sin. He walked this earth, not in His Godly authority, but constrained by the same physical limitations that constrain us. By revealing the source of His authority, He was demonstrating the limited abilities of the natural man as well as paving the path for us to follow, for He received spiritual power as we receive spiritual power, through the Spirit of God.
This is why the Spirit had to fall upon Him at His baptism, while He did have all the knowledge & wisdom He had previously in Heaven, He operated by the Spirit's power, thus exemplifying our similar reliance upon the Holy Spirit to be able to operate in the Kingdom of God.
Heb 4:15-16For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
Blessing to you all that see this truth, and to those that seek it earnestly!
Amen. Great link!
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) here is proof the Bible does:
