Is the Old Testament for real? (doctrine, believe, exodus, scriptures)

[ahigherway]

Hi everyone,

you would think that the historic account of Israel in bondage to Egypt, and the struggles between Moses and the Pharaoh, would be important enough to have been documented by not only the Israelites, but also by the Egyptians. After all, the parting of the Red Sea isn't something that happens everyday! (along with the rods which become serpents, the plagues, etc.)

So why can't I find non-Jewish accounts of this story?

(And not only this story, but ALL of the stories which tell of Jewish victories over enemies.. destroying whole peoples, etc.)

Where are the accounts (outside of Jewish texts)? I've done some searching on the web, but can't find much of anything at all!

Could it be that OT accounts are symbolic stories and tales which people put into book form, but that never really happened?

This would certainly explain much of the "contradiction" between OT killings, etc done by the Israelites-- and the True Nature of God, which is Love, demonstrated in Jesus Christ.

So any reliable non-Jewish/Christian sources would be greatly appreciated!

Hoping to hear your thoughts..

Blessings,
brian

[ancient warrior]

Originally Posted by ahigherway

Hi everyone,

you would think that the historic account of Israel in bondage to Egypt, and the struggles between Moses and the Pharaoh, would be important enough to have been documented by not only the Israelites, but also by the Egyptians. After all, the parting of the Red Sea isn't something that happens everyday! (along with the rods which become serpents, the plagues, etc.)

So why can't I find non-Jewish accounts of this story?

(And not only this story, but ALL of the stories which tell of Jewish victories over enemies.. destroying whole peoples, etc.)

Where are the accounts (outside of Jewish texts)? I've done some searching on the web, but can't find much of anything at all!

Could it be that OT accounts are symbolic stories and tales which people put into book form, but that never really happened?

This would certainly explain much of the "contradiction" between OT killings, etc done by the Israelites-- and the True Nature of God, which is Love, demonstrated in Jesus Christ.

So any reliable non-Jewish/Christian sources would be greatly appreciated!

Hoping to hear your thoughts..

Blessings,
brian

RESPONSE:

The early Old Testament is a collection of Jewish folklore of a people and tales sometimes adapted from the writings of the people with whom they came in contact or shared an ancestry.

Portions of it are historical but the historical parts are vague.

You are quite correct on one point. It isn't terribly credible that there ever were a million or so Hebrews held as slaves by the Egyptians whose exodus wasn't mentioned in Egyptian writings.

Modern scholars tell us that the first five books of the Old Testament were written at the earliest about 900 B.C.

[ahigherway]

Thanks for your input, ancient warrior. You confirm what I have seen, which is that there is indeed little credible historic evidence of the events in the OT.

This may scare some, or I may seem "heretical," but actually I do not see that such a point is heretical. On the contrary, I still believe that the OT is God-inspired. This doesn't mean that it was given to be understood as a historical account.

So if anyone out there has credible, unbiased, non-religious documentation of the OT events, I am really interested in seeing it.

Blessings to all,
brian

[ancient warrior]

Originally Posted by ahigherway

Thanks for your input, ancient warrior. You confirm what I have seen, which is that there is indeed little credible historic evidence of the events in the OT.

This may scare some, or I may seem "heretical," but actually I do not see that such a point is heretical. On the contrary, I still believe that the OT is God-inspired. This doesn't mean that it was given to be understood as a historical account.

So if anyone out there has credible, unbiased, non-religious documentation of the OT events, I am really interested in seeing it.

Blessings to all,
brian

RESPONSE

Can the truth be heretical? If that is the case, shouldn't we be looking at the accusers rather than the accused?

[Phazelwood]

Originally Posted by ahigherway

Thanks for your input, ancient warrior. You confirm what I have seen, which is that there is indeed little credible historic evidence of the events in the OT.

This may scare some, or I may seem "heretical," but actually I do not see that such a point is heretical. On the contrary, I still believe that the OT is God-inspired. This doesn't mean that it was given to be understood as a historical account.

So if anyone out there has credible, unbiased, non-religious documentation of the OT events, I am really interested in seeing it.

Blessings to all,
brian

I do not see scripture mentioning any intention of accurate historical accounts even if in reality it does contain some.

It has been written what scripture is for.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


Nothing there about history.

[pcamps]

Whether it is literal or symbolic, i believe it should be read symbolically and when doing so the whole of scripture makes complete sense, to the believer they are not to be read literally, but they are to be spiritually discerned.Read literally the carnal minded side of us will always see death and destruction and God killing folk at will, the spiritual minded man see the destruction of that which comes between the union God and man.

[InsaneInDaMembrane]

Originally Posted by ahigherway

Hi everyone,

you would think that the historic account of Israel in bondage to Egypt, and the struggles between Moses and the Pharaoh, would be important enough to have been documented by not only the Israelites, but also by the Egyptians. After all, the parting of the Red Sea isn't something that happens everyday! (along with the rods which become serpents, the plagues, etc.)

So why can't I find non-Jewish accounts of this story?

(And not only this story, but ALL of the stories which tell of Jewish victories over enemies.. destroying whole peoples, etc.)

Where are the accounts (outside of Jewish texts)? I've done some searching on the web, but can't find much of anything at all!

Could it be that OT accounts are symbolic stories and tales which people put into book form, but that never really happened?

This would certainly explain much of the "contradiction" between OT killings, etc done by the Israelites-- and the True Nature of God, which is Love, demonstrated in Jesus Christ.

So any reliable non-Jewish/Christian sources would be greatly appreciated!

Hoping to hear your thoughts..

Blessings,
brian

You sound like a heretic doubting the literal reading of the Old Testament. lol

Anyway, after a long debate with Eusebius about this (I had to give up because it was like beating me head against a steel door), I tried to point out that these events were probably based on some actual events (minus the miracles) which were later highly embellished with a healthy heaping of god and amazing miracles to show off Israel's god as the bad boy on the block.

[Jazzymom]

So I suppose that we can say the same of the NT? Where is the proof? There is none... Does it make the NT useless? No.

But I would say that the Hebrew scriptures are a collection of stories, poem and some is historical, and some not so much. I would say the same of the NT.

[ahigherway]

Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane

You sound like a heretic doubting the literal reading of the Old Testament. lol

Anyway, after a long debate with Eusebius about this (I had to give up because it was like beating me head against a steel door), I tried to point out that these events were probably based on some actual events (minus the miracles) which were later highly embellished with a healthy heaping of god and amazing miracles to show off Israel's god as the bad boy on the block.

Hi Insane,
I guess we are all on a path, and what is "meat" for one today might not be "meat" for another until next time..

So I'm kind of late in arriving, but now that I'm here, I want to know. I really want to see proof of things in the OT that until now have always always been taught to be "accurate literal history."
And, as you might guess, I believed it hook-line-and sinker.

But, as Ancient Warrior noted beautifully, if it's TRUTH, it's not heretical.

So let's get to it!
Where is the historical evidence (outside of the OT) ?

Hoping to hear from some real scholars on this one!

Blessings,
brian

[Jazzymom]

Originally Posted by ahigherway

Hi everyone,

you would think that the historic account of Israel in bondage to Egypt, and the struggles between Moses and the Pharaoh, would be important enough to have been documented by not only the Israelites, but also by the Egyptians. After all, the parting of the Red Sea isn't something that happens everyday! (along with the rods which become serpents, the plagues, etc.)

So why can't I find non-Jewish accounts of this story?

(And not only this story, but ALL of the stories which tell of Jewish victories over enemies.. destroying whole peoples, etc.)

Where are the accounts (outside of Jewish texts)? I've done some searching on the web, but can't find much of anything at all!

Could it be that OT accounts are symbolic stories and tales which people put into book form, but that never really happened?

This would certainly explain much of the "contradiction" between OT killings, etc done by the Israelites-- and the True Nature of God, which is Love, demonstrated in Jesus Christ.

So any reliable non-Jewish/Christian sources would be greatly appreciated!

Hoping to hear your thoughts..

Blessings,
brian

given that the OT is the Jewish Hebrew Bible why would you exclude Jewish scholarly texts and information.

I am not sure why you have put a limit on where you get information?