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Old 03-21-2011, 07:33 PM
Status: "God saves ALL" (set 16 days ago)
 
6,030 posts, read 3,006,272 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Ok. My post reveals my views. No. Sodom and Gomorrah is a spiritual fable . . . (like Aesop's) . . . designed to teach a moral. It is NOT a historical event. The literalists who treat the OT bible stories as fact are the ones referred to "in the latter days" who follow fables and not the NT Gospel of Jesus Christ. God does NOT physically intervene directly on the earth . . . WE have Dominion. God does work spiritually through humans by influencing their inner souls. It is our spiritual development that is of concern to God.
See I treat it is a historical event Mystic. In other words, I believe it REALLY happened. I believe Adam and Eve really existed. I believe there really was a Garden of Eden. I believe there really was a great flood. I believe a man named Noah really built an Ark. I believe God really does care about His creation and that He directly controls it.

I think the real fable is to believe that He has nothing do with it.
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Old 03-21-2011, 09:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by trettep View Post
See I treat it is a historical event Mystic. In other words, I believe it REALLY happened. I believe Adam and Eve really existed. I believe there really was a Garden of Eden. I believe there really was a great flood. I believe a man named Noah really built an Ark.
That makes you a bible literalist? Sorry Trettep . . . that position is intellectually irrational to me. The God-inspired "lessons" for our instruction recorded in the OT are spiritually immature and ignorant interpretations by our ancient ancestors who were trying to understand God based on their primitive cultural ideas, lack of knowledge about reality, fear, superstition and misunderstanding of the purpose of scripture.
Quote:
I believe God really does care about His creation and that He directly controls it. I think the real fable is to believe that He has nothing do with it.
I would never say God doesn't care about us . . . I experience that directly in deep meditation. It is not even in question . . . and I did not say God has nothing to do with it, Trettep. I said He doesn't intervene directly on earth. But He controls everything by His established "laws" (physical and spiritual) . . . and He influences us individually and collectively through the Holy Spirit and what He has "written in our hearts."
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Old 03-21-2011, 09:35 PM
Status: "God saves ALL" (set 16 days ago)
 
6,030 posts, read 3,006,272 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
That makes you a bible literalist?
I don't know about these labels you throw around but Jesus Christ believed them also since He also quotes them many times.

Quote:
Sorry Trettep . . . that position is intellectually irrational to me. The God-inspired "lessons" for our instruction recorded in the OT are spiritually immature and ignorant interpretations by our ancient ancestors who were trying to understand God based on their primitive cultural ideas, lack of knowledge about reality, fear, superstition and misunderstanding of the purpose of scripture.I would never say God doesn't care about us . . . I experience that directly in deep meditation. It is not even in question . . . and I did not say God has nothing to do with it, Trettep. I said He doesn't intervene directly on earth. But He controls everything by His established "laws" (physical and spiritual) . . . and He influences us individually and collectively through the Holy Spirit and what He has "written in our hearts."
A Christian is one who follows Jesus Christ. Jesus taught from the Old Testament and believed those things really happened. I find that compelling enough to stand right there with Christ and believe it also.
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Old 03-21-2011, 09:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by trettep View Post
I don't know about these labels you throw around but Jesus Christ believed them also since He also quotes them many times.
A Christian is one who follows Jesus Christ. Jesus taught from the Old Testament and believed those things really happened. I find that compelling enough to stand right there with Christ and believe it also.
You prefer not to divide the scriptures . . . so be it. We both follow Jesus Christ . . . so there are no important disagreements between us, Trettep.
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Old 03-22-2011, 06:50 AM
Status: "God saves ALL" (set 16 days ago)
 
6,030 posts, read 3,006,272 times
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You prefer not to divide the scriptures . . . so be it. We both follow Jesus Christ . . . so there are no important disagreements between us, Trettep.
Jesus to those that read the OT scriptures that they testify of Him.

Joh 5:39 `Ye search the Writings, because ye think in them to have life age-during, and these are they that are testifying concerning me;

We both follow two very people. The Jesus Christ I know is not a FABLE from the OT but those scriptures speak of Him.
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Old 03-22-2011, 01:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Jesus to those that read the OT scriptures that they testify of Him.
Joh 5:39 `Ye search the Writings, because ye think in them to have life age-during, and these are they that are testifying concerning me;
We AGREE. about this, trettep. But you . . . refuse to lift the veil of ignorance over the OT scriptures and understand their true purpose. You treat the OT as a history book . . . instead of as spiritual revelations and prophesies to prepare the way for Christ. The prophesies they contain are God-inspired revelations to predict and validate the emergence of Christ. When Christ emerged . . . their main job was FULFILLED by Jesus.
Quote:
We both follow two very people. The Jesus Christ I know is not a FABLE from the OT but those scriptures speak of Him.
I know (better than any one else I know) that Jesus is not a fable. But the OT is not the infallible and literal word of God . . . it contains God-inspired spiritual "lessons " and morality plays for our ignorant primitive ancestors. It is USEFUL (profitable) for instruction and to give us hope. But it must be read with the "mind of Christ" and the guidance of the Holy Spirit using what God has "written in our hearts" to remove the veil of ignorance over reading the OT. It is NOT a history book.
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Old 03-22-2011, 06:32 PM
Status: "God saves ALL" (set 16 days ago)
 
6,030 posts, read 3,006,272 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
We AGREE. about this, trettep. But you . . . refuse to lift the veil of ignorance over the OT scriptures and understand their true purpose. You treat the OT as a history book . . . instead of as spiritual revelations and prophesies to prepare the way for Christ. The prophesies they contain are God-inspired revelations to predict and validate the emergence of Christ. When Christ emerged . . . their main job was FULFILLED by Jesus. I know (better than any one else I know) that Jesus is not a fable. But the OT is not the infallible and literal word of God . . . it contains God-inspired spiritual "lessons " and morality plays for our ignorant primitive ancestors. It is USEFUL (profitable) for instruction and to give us hope. But it must be read with the "mind of Christ" and the guidance of the Holy Spirit using what God has "written in our hearts" to remove the veil of ignorance over reading the OT. It is NOT a history book.
Listen to how irrational your speach is Mystic. You say "...you refuse to lift the veil..." Let me remind you that nobody comes to knowledge of themselves. Only God draws one to Him. Now let's continue, you go on to say "...of ignorance over the OT scriptures..". Think about what you said there. Again, this is irrational/illogical speach. If I'm IGNORANT then how can I be REFUSING anything if I wouldn't know of what to be refusing. This is how irrational your statements are.

Now you claim that Jesus Fulfilled the these old testament prophecies. Which is CORRECT. And Yes, Jesus is NOT a fable. You do forget that Jesus PREACHED from the Old Testament scriptures and considered them divinely inspired. The scriptures are not JUST profitable for instruction but more:

2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
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Old 03-22-2011, 09:00 PM
 
23,288 posts, read 11,511,022 times
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Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Listen to how irrational your speach is Mystic. You say "...you refuse to lift the veil..." Let me remind you that nobody comes to knowledge of themselves. Only God draws one to Him. Now let's continue, you go on to say "...of ignorance over the OT scriptures..". Think about what you said there. Again, this is irrational/illogical speach. If I'm IGNORANT then how can I be REFUSING anything if I wouldn't know of what to be refusing. This is how irrational your statements are.
You are not ignorant, Trettep. I clearly am not communicating well. The OT writings were interpreted and recorded in ignorance by and intended for our ignorant ancestors . . . NOT modern 21st century audiences.
Quote:
Now you claim that Jesus Fulfilled the these old testament prophecies. Which is CORRECT. And Yes, Jesus is NOT a fable. You do forget that Jesus PREACHED from the Old Testament scriptures and considered them divinely inspired. The scriptures are not JUST profitable for instruction but more:

2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Trettep, the divine inspiration (NOT dictation)of the OT is not the issue . . . the ignorance and cultural barbarity of the interpreters of those inspirations is the problem. They were influenced by their fears and superstitions about God when interpreting and recording the stories, prophesies, visions, dreams, etc. When we use the "mind of Christ" and the guidance of the Holy Spirit to read the OT in faith that Jesus revealed God's TRUE NATURE . . . we lift the veil of that ignorance and understand the real message in the scriptures.

Let's just agree to disagree about these details, trettep . . . and take my word for it . . . we follow the same Jesus.
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Old 03-22-2011, 09:23 PM
Status: "God saves ALL" (set 16 days ago)
 
6,030 posts, read 3,006,272 times
Reputation: 471
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
...

Let's just agree to disagree about these details, trettep . . . and take my word for it . . . we follow the same Jesus.
Time will tell. God bless you brother.
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