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Some of us believe that when an individual who has been granted specific authority by their Church says and does certain things, something happens.
For example, when that person says "I now pronounce you husband and wife" something happened.
The man and woman look the same, may even feel the same, but they are now different. They went from him and her, to husband and wife, as the result of a few actions and words.
When, after some actions, the Minister says "This is my Blood....", "This is my Body...", something happened.
We Catholics believe something Profound happened. And even though many Catholics don't fully comprehend the doctrine of transubstantiation, a visitor would observe that something happened.
I have attended communion in other churches. And after the sacrament, the store bought bread is thrown around and picked up off the floor and thrown into baskets.
In a Catholic service, what was once bread and wine, is treated with profound respect. Because we believe it is now different. That something happened.
Even when someone does not fully grasp the doctrine, it does compel them to take the ceremony very seriously, and to reflect, with awe and wonder, on the mysteries of the historical event in unique way.
When Jesus changed the water into wine, they could have used scientific proof it was now wine. The people who tasted it knew it was wine and better than the cheap stuff too.
It didn't take any faith to believe the water was changed into wine back then.
So why is it all of a sudden when a person says a priest changes the bread into the body of Christ and the wine into the blood of Christ it cannot be verified? that it must be taken by faith?
I don't know, but it's certainly not anything that has come up all of a sudden.
I think Oakback gave a good answer from a Catholic perspective. In the Episcopal Church, we generally believe that Christ is present in the Eucharist, although some do believe in transubstantiation as well.
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 03-17-2011 at 07:18 PM..
Could I ask a question of the Catholics and Episcopalians on the forum. I've tried to understand this concept before, always without success. What is the difference between "real presence" and "transubstantiation"? Please, dumb it down for me, keeping the language in as straight-forward terms as possible, and not using too many philosophical terms. I think those things are what tend to throw me.
I have attended communion in other churches. And after the sacrament, the store bought bread is thrown around and picked up off the floor and thrown into baskets.
In a Catholic service, what was once bread and wine, is treated with profound respect. Because we believe it is now different. That something happened.
Even when someone does not fully grasp the doctrine, it does compel them to take the ceremony very seriously, and to reflect, with awe and wonder, on the mysteries of the historical event in unique way.
First off by Catholic do you mean Roman Catholic aka the Roman Church? If so, please state that as there are many catholic churches, not just the one headquartered in Vatican City.
Second, I am minister at a protestant church and we a) do not use store bread b) the hosts are never thrown around or thrown out after consecration c) discarded if fallen onto the ground. If they have fallen, I personally eat them when I finish off the remains from the table. We know and understand what they stand for and give them the respect they deserve.
Many denominations treat the bread and the wine with profound respect, just as those from the Roman Church and the Anglican Church do.
First off by Catholic do you mean Roman Catholic aka the Roman Church? If so, please state that as there are many catholic churches, not just the one headquartered in Vatican City.
Second, I am minister at a protestant church and we a) do not use store bread b) the hosts are never thrown around or thrown out after consecration c) discarded if fallen onto the ground. If they have fallen, I personally eat them when I finish off the remains from the table. We know and understand what they stand for and give them the respect they deserve.
Many denominations treat the bread and the wine with profound respect, just as those from the Roman Church and the Anglican Church do.
Glad to hear it
And yes, I realize that "Catholic" means universal.
I am curious if those of you who believe the bread really turns into Jesus' body and the wine turns into Jesus' blood?
If so, do you have scientific proof it does?
I attempted to answer this question myself scientifically in a paper I talked about in this thread here. I will not say too much more about it here as I am not sure what actually qualifies as "offensive" as per the moderator warning above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrcousert
I think most people know what blood tastes like (ever cut your lip?). If the wine was literally turned into blood, wouldn't it taste like blood?
That was one of the tests I performed. See the link above. I still have a number of "consecreated hosts" so I am also open to any other tests people can think of that I might not have. Probably best considering the moderator warning above to PM me any ideas you have though, as I am not sure what experiments and procedures might be deemed to be offensive.
Last edited by Nozzferrahhtoo; 03-18-2011 at 03:56 AM..
Could I ask a question of the Catholics and Episcopalians on the forum. I've tried to understand this concept before, always without success. What is the difference between "real presence" and "transubstantiation"? Please, dumb it down for me, keeping the language in as straight-forward terms as possible, and not using too many philosophical terms. I think those things are what tend to throw me.
My LDS friend,
I"m one that is not capable of putting this into simple terms.
Suffice it to say, there have been debates over centuries, over just your question.
Luther,Calvin,Wycliff,Aquinas, to mention a few, all have their fascinating opinions.
For me, it ultimately comes down to an ascent of my will...or faith. Something I'm sure you'll understand
Nevertheless, if you want to spend the time, here's a link.
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