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Old 03-24-2011, 05:22 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,592,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
He we go again with the old for ever and ever thing. I know you have been on threads where this has been explained to you,and while you believe it's impossible for there to be errors in translation, it's not even worth debating with you.
Few translation have anything else. And most who would change those words come from cults. Such as the Watchtower society.
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Old 03-24-2011, 05:24 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,592,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty Rhodes View Post
Why do we believe God is not able to save all those that are lost


Because all of the gods are mythological.

If the Biblical God was mythological. Why are the prophecies of the Bible true?
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Old 03-24-2011, 05:31 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,592,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sschulz View Post
Hi Finn

Judgement is not Saved go to heaven, or condemned go to hell. Judgement is where we reap what we have sown and are chastened by it so we repent and change. All men go though judgement, Christ elect will judge themselves and rule with him in the Kingdom of God. The rest will be resurrected and then judged by them and will repent and be cleansed. Judgement changes us it does not condemn us.

Thats not what my Bible tells us. Daniel 12:2

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

EVERLASTING CONTEMPT- Does not allow much room for being cleansed, repenting, or change.
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Old 03-24-2011, 05:49 PM
 
Location: East Coast
29,519 posts, read 19,588,354 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Thats not what my Bible tells us. Daniel 12:2

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

EVERLASTING CONTEMPT- Does not allow much room for being cleansed, repenting, or change.
Do you understand if you are wrong in your belief that forever and ever and everlasting are not translated correctly, this takes the bottom out of everything you believe. The easiest thing in the world to do is to say all the bibles i have ever read are translated thus, and the few i have heard that are not are translations of cults, that is how the establishment dealt with Jesus , he's the devil because he does not fit how we have been taught and always believed.

I would also bet my bottom dollar that you have not even been open enough to read anything that challenges what your believe,an openess to the fact that the translations could be wrong, (although they are),if you haven't this should tell you a lot.

What you Fundamentalists fail to understand is that many of us who believe that Jesus truely IS the Savior of All, were former ET'ers and Annihilators, so it's not as if we have never been open to what you believe.

I am not singling you out, but many of you Fundy's come across as you really do not want it to be true, that he truely is the Savior of all.
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Old 03-24-2011, 06:34 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,592,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Do you understand if you are wrong in your belief that forever and ever and everlasting are not translated correctly, this takes the bottom out of everything you believe. The easiest thing in the world to do is to say all the bibles i have ever read are translated thus, and the few i have heard that are not are translations of cults, that is how the establishment dealt with Jesus , he's the devil because he does not fit how we have been taught and always believed.

I would also bet my bottom dollar that you have not even been open enough to read anything that challenges what your believe,an openess to the fact that the translations could be wrong, (although they are),if you haven't this should tell you a lot.

What you Fundamentalists fail to understand is that many of us who believe that Jesus truely IS the Savior of All, were former ET'ers and Annihilators, so it's not as if we have never been open to what you believe.

I am not singling you out, but many of you Fundy's come across as you really do not want it to be true, that he truely is the Savior of all.

Scripture tells us that Jesus is the Savior of all, (WHO BELIEVE). And only a few verses that are pulled out of context would support your view. And most Bibles do use the words forever and everlasting. And they have been translated by numerous translators. Only those would would have us believe something else. Now suggest such words are wrong. Jesus tells us that He would be telling people to depart from Him, and enter the eternal flames, prepared for the Devil and his angels. HOW CAN YOU IGNORE HIS WORDS?
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Old 03-25-2011, 09:59 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
234 posts, read 191,233 times
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Search as I might, I have yet to find any reference to a resurrection from the second death.
Re 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
This second death is an event which takes place at the end of the 1000 years, shortly after the second resurrection, which is of the wicked.
Re 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.( The first resurrection is of the righteous at the second coming.)
So all the above, the liars, the fearful, the unbelieving, murderers etc are resurrected to face the pronouncement of the sentence upon them for their sins, which is death. A death from which there is no resurrection. This death is realised through fire.
Malachi 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.....3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

When is the resurrection from this event that must take place to support universal salvation?

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Old 03-25-2011, 11:45 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,334,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brakelite View Post
Search as I might, I have yet to find any reference to a resurrection from the second death.
Re 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
This second death is an event which takes place at the end of the 1000 years, shortly after the second resurrection, which is of the wicked.
Re 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.( The first resurrection is of the righteous at the second coming.)
So all the above, the liars, the fearful, the unbelieving, murderers etc are resurrected to face the pronouncement of the sentence upon them for their sins, which is death. A death from which there is no resurrection. This death is realised through fire.
Malachi 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.....3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

When is the resurrection from this event that must take place to support universal salvation?
Be ready,,,they have 'out of context' verses in hand!
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Old 03-26-2011, 12:06 AM
 
5,702 posts, read 4,507,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brakelite View Post
Search as I might, I have yet to find any reference to a resurrection from the second death.
Re 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
This second death is an event which takes place at the end of the 1000 years, shortly after the second resurrection, which is of the wicked.
Re 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.( The first resurrection is of the righteous at the second coming.)
So all the above, the liars, the fearful, the unbelieving, murderers etc are resurrected to face the pronouncement of the sentence upon them for their sins, which is death. A death from which there is no resurrection. This death is realised through fire.
Malachi 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.....3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

When is the resurrection from this event that must take place to support universal salvation?

I just read this somewhere and thought it was an interesting way to word it:

The FIRST death = Death IN Adam.
The SECOND death = Death TO Adam [our carnal nature].



It's a very deep and complex and beautiful thing if you ponder and meditate on it with the understanding of the magnificent power of God's love.

If it speaks to you, it speaks to you...
if it doesn't, it doesn't.
I'm confident it will speak to someone out there, though.

Just some thoughts,
peace,
sparrow
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Old 03-26-2011, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
57,406 posts, read 31,083,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Thats not what my Bible tells us. Daniel 12:2

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

EVERLASTING CONTEMPT- Does not allow much room for being cleansed, repenting, or change.
You are wasting your time. These people believe that God selected a tiny fraction of the population, the universalists, to be the only ones who understand this mysery in the Bible. And they just happen to be the same group who don't even believe the Bible is the word of God, but 'just a book' and 'old manna'. Go figure....
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Old 03-26-2011, 09:24 AM
 
Location: God's Country
21,333 posts, read 29,265,598 times
Reputation: 29802
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
You are wasting your time. These people believe that God selected a tiny fraction of the population, the universalists, to be the only ones who understand this mysery in the Bible. And they just happen to be the same group who don't even believe the Bible is the word of God, but 'just a book' and 'old manna'. Go figure....
It may seem that way at times here, but it's never a waste of time, Isaiah 55:11 says God's word does not return void. You never know who is reading all of this.
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