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Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled:for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
There is a great escalation in verse 7 from the previous verse where war was simply rumour and hearsay. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries the world was full of confidence and great expectation of a coming millennium of peace and safety brought about by very recent remarkable advances in scientific knowledge in industry and medicine. Christianity was held dear by the vast majority of those living in the world, before communism took over in Russia, before the Chinese shut out the missionaries from the west, before Japan turned away the church from their doors. And by far the vast majority of Christians believed in a soon coming millennium to be brought about by the efforts of man himself. Most saw the future with an eagerness and expectation of God’s kingdom being established in their lifetime… Bible Societies were springing up all over the world, missionaries were entering places never before thought possible; stories were coming from people like Taylor in China, Livingstone in Africa. These stories were hugely popular and helped imbue a great missionary zeal throughout the Christian world.
Until WW1. This dashed hopes and shocked many. Any remaining hope was expunged by the great depression and WW2. Instead of society improving into a godly utopia, the world crashed into chaos. The 20th century turned into a bloodbath. The planet began to turn itself into one vast war cemetery. More wars and war related deaths than the previous 6000 years of man’s history put together. All in just 100 years. Not only 2 world wars, but also Vietnam, Rwanda, Ethiopia, Chechnya, Northern Ireland, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Palestine, Iraq, Libya and on and on and on. And it hasn’t stopped.
...and there shall be famines...
War is evil and devastating both on man and beast. Add to that famine , and things escalate exponentially. Hunger , in any sense of the word, is not good. During wartime, it is infinitely worse.
...and pestilences...
War and famine is bad enough, but add disease and it gets ten times worse.
and earthquakes, in divers places.
And then we have those hungry, diseased war-torn people without anywhere to live because their homes are destroyed and once again you see an escalation in these sorrows,and these disasters can be natural, or man-made as a result of the wars, yet
8 All these are the (Only the) beginning of sorrows.
However, notice something else about the previous scenario. At first we see nations and kingdoms divided. They are at war with one another, there is strife among the nations of the world, there is no accord, no peace, and no agreement.Yet just 2 verses after reading the “nation against nation and kingdom against kingdom,” verse we read
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.
Who is “they”? Well surely it must be the nations which were not long before fighting one another. And here we see them united against God’s people!!
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
And not only do the nations hate God’s people, but God’s people are being offended and turning each other over to the authorities. (Jesus warned us elsewhere of the time when our enemies will be those of our own household, and that there will come a time when those who kill us will think they are serving God.) Who are these who get offended? See Matthew 13:21. Those who get offended are fellow Christians who do not endure the coming persecution of the nations. All this however leads me to the following question. What was it that changed the mindset of the divided nations to make them unite? What was it that motivated the nations to give up their hatred against one another, and turn it toward God’s redeemed ?
Take another look at the above verses. Verse 7 describes war. Verse 9 describes the united front against the church. So what happened in between those two verses? The natural disasters!!! It is the natural disasters that bring the nations together.
What has happened in recent history? After WW1 the league of nations was formed. It failed. After WW2 the Untied Nations was formed. It also has been a failure, and continues to be. After 9/11 the president of the US called upon all the nations of the world to unite against terrorism. We have seen unprecedented international support following hurricane Katrina, the Asian Tsunami, and now the Haiti, Chilean, Christchurch and Japan earthquakes. In fact Japan traditionally never accepts help from anyone, but this past week accepted asistance from Korea and China, both former enemies! We daily witness records being smashed with regard to tornadoes and hurricanes in both frequency, numbers and strength. We have seen just what the prophecy portrayed, a massive escalation in natural disasters. And we also see more and more the world uniting to help the victims and repair the damage. After the economic crash 2 years ago we saw the same. Calls for a “New World Order” are coming now thick and fast, from political leaders the world over, and even the pope. In fact the pope has gone on record saying that he was the only person with the standing and moral integrity to lead this NWO. Many leading politicians of the world agree with this, and have been queuing up outside the Vatican front door to show their support in droves. And the latest is climate change. In Copenhagen we saw for the first time the words “One world government” in an international treaty. One world government has leaped confidently from the conspiracy basket to current affairs. Note the following quote from the newly elected leader of the EU.
In accepting his appointment as the first president of the European Union, Belgian Prime Minister Herman Van Rompuy announced that “global governance” is the only way to address the crises that beset the planet.
In a Christmas speech of 2005 Pope Benedict first spoke these now favored global warming scare tactics of pandemics, economic situation, and terrorism as good reasons to “let the child of Bethlehem take you by the hand” into a much needed global government that will fix all these problems.
Today, the terms “global government”, “one world government”, “new world order” and similar expressions are so common place coming from the lips of world leaders, that the media has stopped reporting on it.
Note the following words of Jesus… Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
With perplexity. This means that the nations are faced with such an insurmountable set of problems that they see no way out. So they unite in an attempt to solve the crisis. And we see that happening before our very eyes. The world is today uniting in an unprecedented manner to combat the problems that are facing mankind. But rather than turning to God in repentance and reformation, the leaders of the world are turning to one another, relying on their own wisdom and understanding to solve the crisis. Prophecy however does tell us that God will be an integral part of the coming NWO, for Revelation tells us that a form of worship is enforced upon all men. So a form of recognition to a spiritual component brings about the mark spoken of in Revelation 13.
But why attack the church?
Because they are united not only politically, but also in a global counterfeit Christian system of religion ( Babylon the Great). They not only establish political laws, but also religious. They establish , as can be read in Rev 13, laws that pertain to worship, but because the disasters continue, against their most cherished hopes, and despite their best attempts to placate what they believe to be the end-time judgments of an angry God, the crisis only deepens, and they end up blaming those who have not bowed themselves to the NWO. … God’s people.
The time is right upon us. Even at the doors. Look up, for our redemption draweth nigh.
[quote=brakelite;18399341]Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled:for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
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7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
Since there has been nations/kingdoms, they have been rising up against each other. Nothing new here.
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...and there shall be famines...
As long as there have been humans on this earth, there have been famines.
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...and pestilences...
See above
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and earthquakes, in divers places.
What do you think has shaped the surface of this earth and still shapes its surface since the earth has been here? Yes, and they do happen in DIVERS places and always have. Does not take a rocket scientist to figure this out nor any remarkable "prophecies" to predict earthquakes. Predict a hurricane in the Arctic Ocean and watch it fulfill and you have my attention.
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8 All these are the (Only the) beginning of sorrows.
Mankind has been in sorrow since he got here and he and the earth (mother nature) has had a love hate relationship since they first met up to now. The "beginning" of these sorrows did not start after the writers of the New Testament said they started.
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9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.
This could be said just about any other NEW members of an infant cult.
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10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Human nature and history. Nothing impressive about this prediction.
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Note the following words of Jesus… Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
You could drop that "prediction" into any epoch of history and sound brilliant because at some point in time, the heavenly bodies will do something strange (to us) and seas and waves have been roaring and will continue to roar sometimes beyond the usual.
These quotes are taken directly from the gospels of Matthew and Luke. It was Jesus Himself who first spoke these words, not me. So if you are not impressed, fine,but tell Him.
That said, methinks you are blind. Wars: Like I said, the 21st century has turned this planet into one vast war cemetery. Never before has there been such continuous ongoing bloodshed between nations, between factions within nations, as well as numerous religious, societal, and financially motivated insurrections, civil wars, riots and general bloodletting as the past 2 or 3 generations witnessed. This comes right down to family violence in the home. Jesus said that when He will come it will be as the days of Noah. "And the earth was filled with violence" (Genesis 6:13) In my own experience I remember as a child growing up in this country a murder received headline news in the papers for weeks, and the entire nation was horrified. We would have 3 maybe 4 a year. Now it is 4 or 5 a week. Times have changed.
Famines. Take a look at the statistics for children dying of malnutrition every day. And you're not impressed?
Pestilence Penicillin was once hailed as a miracle drug, and certainly saved the lives of millions from the threat of infection. But like so many other drugs of like nature, the bacteria and germs and infections they were meant to fight are now quickly becoming immune. Hospitals are now the most dangerous places to visit on the planet. There is pestilence all right, and it is fast becoming uncontrollable.
Earthquakes Again, look at the statistics. Records show that in the year 1990 about 16,000 earthquakes were recorded. This was the average figure for that time, but each year since then the number has increased to the point that in 2009 the average number now is 31,000 per year. That is from all magnitudes. Doubled in just 20 years. Check out the figures for 2010. If you are still not impressed, I suggest you take it up with the author of the aforementioned prophecy.
These quotes are taken directly from the gospels of Matthew and Luke. It was Jesus Himself who first spoke these words, not me. So if you are not impressed, fine,but tell Him.
That said, methinks you are blind. Wars: Like I said, the 21st century has turned this planet into one vast war cemetery. Never before has there been such continuous ongoing bloodshed between nations, between factions within nations, as well as numerous religious, societal, and financially motivated insurrections, civil wars, riots and general bloodletting as the past 2 or 3 generations witnessed. This comes right down to family violence in the home. Jesus said that when He will come it will be as the days of Noah. "And the earth was filled with violence" (Genesis 6:13) In my own experience I remember as a child growing up in this country a murder received headline news in the papers for weeks, and the entire nation was horrified. We would have 3 maybe 4 a year. Now it is 4 or 5 a week. Times have changed.
Famines. Take a look at the statistics for children dying of malnutrition every day. And you're not impressed?
Pestilence Penicillin was once hailed as a miracle drug, and certainly saved the lives of millions from the threat of infection. But like so many other drugs of like nature, the bacteria and germs and infections they were meant to fight are now quickly becoming immune. Hospitals are now the most dangerous places to visit on the planet. There is pestilence all right, and it is fast becoming uncontrollable.
Earthquakes Again, look at the statistics. Records show that in the year 1990 about 16,000 earthquakes were recorded. This was the average figure for that time, but each year since then the number has increased to the point that in 2009 the average number now is 31,000 per year. That is from all magnitudes. Doubled in just 20 years. Check out the figures for 2010. If you are still not impressed, I suggest you take it up with the author of the aforementioned prophecy.
Have you considered advances in technology both the good and the bad as being contributing factors along with a population explosion? In addition, none of these "prophecies" claim that there will be MORE of these common events of history or that they will MORE intense as to contrast them with previous wars, famines or pestilences and so on.
We have better equipment today to track earthquakes, even the slightest tremor. We have better communications and we are far more in tuned with even the smallest events in the far reaches of the globe than we were in 1990. It does not mean ALL of these things (earthquakes, famines, pestilences, etc) were not happening whether we knew about them or not.
Have you considered advances in technology both the good and the bad as being contributing factors along with a population explosion? In addition, none of these "prophecies" claim that there will be MORE of these common events of history or that they will MORE intense as to contrast them with previous wars, famines or pestilences and so on.
But they are more frequent, and they are more intense, and they are happening in more places, regardless of the reason, and regardless of whether the prophecy explicitly says so or not.
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Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane
We have better equipment today to track earthquakes, even the slightest tremor. We have better communications and we are far more in tuned with even the smallest events in the far reaches of the globe than we were in 1990. It does not mean ALL of these things (earthquakes, famines, pestilences, etc) were not happening whether we knew about them or not.
If we accept your understanding that the prophecy doesn't mean or even imply any increase of frequency or intensity of these events, or even that unlike previous times, they are now continuous events running concurrently with one another and will soon be common all over the globe rather than in isolated places at different times, then if what you are saying is true, the entire passage of Matthew 24 is rendered meaningless and Jesus' warning simply scaremongering and not to be taken seriously. So when Jesus is saying when these things take place, then "look up for your redemption draweth nigh" we are to reply, "sorry, not impressed"?
If the prophecy isn't intended to be understood as an intensification and multiplication of these events, why on earth mention them in the first place? What's the point of Jesus even bringing them into the conversation when if there was to be no remarkable change in the status quo from when He first announced it?
Would it be too obvious for me to suggest you read 2 Peter 3:4-7?
But they are more frequent, and they are more intense, and they are happening in more places, regardless of the reason, and regardless of whether the prophecy explicitly says so or not.
If we accept your understanding that the prophecy doesn't mean or even imply any increase of frequency or intensity of these events, or even that unlike previous times, they are now continuous events running concurrently with one another and will soon be common all over the globe rather than in isolated places at different times, then if what you are saying is true, the entire passage of Matthew 24 is rendered meaningless and Jesus' warning simply scaremongering and not to be taken seriously. So when Jesus is saying when these things take place, then "look up for your redemption draweth nigh" we are to reply, "sorry, not impressed"?
If the prophecy isn't intended to be understood as an intensification and multiplication of these events, why on earth mention them in the first place? What's the point of Jesus even bringing them into the conversation when if there was to be no remarkable change in the status quo from when He first announced it?
Would it be too obvious for me to suggest you read 2 Peter 3:4-7?
First of all, I am not a Christian so I'll stop here for now. Not sure if that is a damper on it all, but I'll stop here for now unless you wish me to continue with my objections.
First of all, I am not a Christian so I'll stop here for now. Not sure if that is a damper on it all, but I'll stop here for now unless you wish me to continue with my objections.
I figured that from your first post. Your objections are noted, however as with most critics of prophecy, you do not realise that Matt 24 is not the only prophecy in the Bible that deals with the second coming. The books of Daniel and Revelation read in conjunction with Matt 24 and 2 Thess and others give a much more detailed picture. Matt is just one tree in a whole forest. Focus on the tree and you don't see the big picture. Aside from natural phenomena there are also political, social, and religious trends that have brought about a current climate that cannot be other than fulfilment of prophecy, and nothing other than a sure confidence that Jesus is returning soon. Very soon.
First of all, I am not a Christian so I'll stop here for now. Not sure if that is a damper on it all, but I'll stop here for now unless you wish me to continue with my objections.
men's effort to explain away everything happening all around us is ridiculous. No matter how many excuses / objections you come up with. you probably have a lot... your skepticism won't make the facts any less true!
but this I tell you, the door is open yet for a little while!
men's effort to explain away everything happening all around us is ridiculous. No matter how many excuses / objections you come up with. you probably have a lot... your skepticism won't make the facts any less true!
but this I tell you, the door is open yet for a little while!
I figured that from your first post. Your objections are noted, however as with most critics of prophecy, you do not realise that Matt 24 is not the only prophecy in the Bible that deals with the second coming. The books of Daniel and Revelation read in conjunction with Matt 24 and 2 Thess and others give a much more detailed picture. Matt is just one tree in a whole forest. Focus on the tree and you don't see the big picture. Aside from natural phenomena there are also political, social, and religious trends that have brought about a current climate that cannot be other than fulfilment of prophecy, and nothing other than a sure confidence that Jesus is returning soon. Very soon.
The so-called prophecies were meant for the audience Jesus (the NT writers) was speaking to. The only reason you are even raising them as pertinent 2 long millenniums later is because Jesus NEVER came back when he (the NT writers) suggested he would. As a result, the target date has been shoved forward and shoved forward and shoved forward and shoved forward and shoved forward and shoved forward and shoved forward and shoved forward and shoved forward and shoved forward and shoved forward and shoved forward and shoved forward and shoved forward andand shoved forward and shoved forward and shoved forward and shoved forward shoved forward and shoved forward and shoved forward and shoved forward and shoved forward and shoved forward and shoved forward and shoved forward and shoved forward and shoved forward and shoved forward and shoved forward...
I think you get my point, but the ONLY thing (biblically) you can grasp at will be the "1,000 years is as one day" argument and even THAT is a lame attempt because that can easily be refuted within the context of both epistles of Peter.
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