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Old 04-03-2011, 12:51 PM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 7,907,546 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
For thinking it's reasonable to believe that if Jesus taught us to love our enemies, to be merciful that we are shown mercy that,he himself and His Father(God) who told him to teach this do and are the same thing they teach, and when we are being these things we are actually showing we are the children of the Most High God.

What differences does it make to God if we didn't love our enemies, show mercy, and retaliate towards those who spitefully are against us, if he doesn't ?.

I think you know deep in your heart Cyber that God IS how He calls us to BE.
The topic is..... "Universalism is not of God .... "it has failed" --- Jesus"

Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Simply ....it has failed. God warned:
Genesis 2:17
but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,
for when you eat of it you will surely die.”

Universalist twists it by reason and adding to God's word:
Genesis 3:3
"but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden,
and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ”

Then Satan's universal love message:
Genesis 3:1,4
“Did God really say,.....?" “You will not surely die,”
THE RESULT: universalism failed
Genesis 8:21
“Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood.

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul who sins is the one who will die.

Romans 1:20
so that men are without excuse.

>>>>>>>>>> \\\\\\\\\ and for the future ........//////<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Ezekiel 18:20
The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him,
and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.

Ezekiel 3:20
“Again, when arighteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil,
and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die...he will die for his sin.
The righteous things he did will not be remembered,


Then Jesus will fulfill Ezekiel 18:20 saying ............Matthew 25:32,33
"to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father;
take your inheritance,
the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.' "

"to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.' "

THE RESULT: universalism will fail
Jesus will fulfill Ezekiel 18:20
Jesus will fulfill Matthew 25:32,33


Have a nice day !!
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Old 04-03-2011, 12:59 PM
 
Location: East Coast
29,324 posts, read 19,355,034 times
Reputation: 2015
Cyber the topic in debate is whether Universalism as failed . What i said to you in my last post is the reason why i know it as not failed and i know you know this in your heart too, and this is why you are not willing to debate it.

I know you believe God who IS love, is unconditional in His Love, Grace and Mercy, that it never runs out, that the river of God flows inncessantly , it never stops flowing, it know's no boundaries, death cannot quench it. You know these things i'm sure of it.

Last edited by pcamps; 04-03-2011 at 01:21 PM..
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Old 04-03-2011, 02:02 PM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 7,907,546 times
Reputation: 17782
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Cyber the topic in debate is whether Universalism as failed . What i said to you in my last post is the reason why i know it as not failed and i know you know this in your heart too, and this is why you are not willing to debate it.

I know you believe God who IS love, is unconditional in His Love, Grace and Mercy, that it never runs out the river of God flows inncessantly , it never stops flowing, it know's no boundaries, death cannot quench it. You know these things i'm sure of it.
There is nothing to debate !!
God's word is truth and warns against those who come to you in sheep clothing with a different gospel. By which I have learned through a few here in this forum who are...... trying their best to lay another foundation other then the foundation Jesus Christ laid !!

1 Corinthians 3:11
For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

The Holy Spirit will reveal to His people the lies of any heresy and I praise the Father for His Spirit who has taught me how to discern the voice of the Shepherd (my Lord Jesus) from the false shepherds, teachers through their false philosophy that they try to proclaim here.... amen !!

It's been a good learning experience.... He points out the twisting and error of their way and because of Him I now can discern it quicker then 4 yrs ago.....
He is building up in me a spiritual house, Jesus Christ and know that I am God's OWN POSSESSION..... amen !


1 Peter 2:4-12
4.And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God,
5.you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

6.For this is contained in Scripture:
"BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER
stone,
AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

7.This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve,
"THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED,
THIS BECAME THE VERY CORNER stone,"

8.and,
"A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE";
for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word,
and to this doom they were also appointed.

9.But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

10.for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.

11.Beloved, I urge you as aliens and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts which wage war against the soul.
12.Keep your behavior excellent among the Gentiles, so that in the thing in which they slander you as evildoers, they may because of your good deeds, as they observe them, glorify God in the day of visitation.



1 Peter 2:21-24
21.For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps,
22.WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH;
23.and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously;
24.and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.

And this is to why I will not argue with those who want nothing but to bring dissention, always baiting for an argument.....

And I would rather turn the other cheek and walk away from such individuals because we are to be an example of my Lord Jesus Christ, that He "while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously."

And I too trust Jesus for this strength because it is the Father in whom judges righteously..... amen !!
By which some thinks it is a weakness when in reality it is my strength in whom I trust, Christ Jesus, in whom gives me the courage to turn and walk away !!

Amen.... Have a nice evening !!!

Last edited by Cyber Munchkin; 04-03-2011 at 02:16 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 04-03-2011, 02:19 PM
 
Location: East Coast
29,324 posts, read 19,355,034 times
Reputation: 2015
Cyber...... Jesus Christ is the foundation of God, not some belief or creed. Who He IS,IS the foundation.

Upon this revelation (who Jesus Christ IS), i will build my church.Even many of the verses you stated testify to this.

So the foundation is the Life(Jesus Christ), the Life we behold, which is not a man with a beard,but a living revelation of the true nature and character of God, who IS Love.

You know this is the truth and quoting a bunch of scripture and insinuating that i am a wolf in sheep's clothing because i am stating that which i know you believe is to say the least strange.

Do you disagree with any of this ?

What is being said that you have to turn the other cheek ?, i know you believe in the unconditional love God has for you, and that his mercy endures forever towards you, that his grace made known to you is irresistable, so why wouldn't you at the very least share the good news with others how it was shared with you ?.

Yes it's true He does judge righteously, and when we refuse to share the same love,grace and mercy shown unconnditionally towards us with the world, we have judged unrighteously,freely give to others what God freely gave us, is the path of righteousness.
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Old 04-03-2011, 02:46 PM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 7,907,546 times
Reputation: 17782
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Cyber...... Jesus Christ is the foundation of God, not some belief or creed. Who He IS,IS the foundation.

Upon this revelation (who Jesus Christ IS), i will build my church.Even many of the verses you stated testify to this.

So the foundation is the Life(Jesus Christ), the Life we behold, which is not a man with a beard,but a living revelation of the true nature and character of God, who IS Love.

You know this is the truth and quoting a bunch of scripture and insinuating that i am a wolf in sheep's clothing because i am stating that which i know you believe is to say the least strange.

Do you disagree with any of this ?

What is being said that you have to turn the other cheek ?, i know you believe in the unconditional love God has for you, and that his mercy endures forever towards you, that his grace made known to you is irresistable, so why wouldn't you at the very least share the good news with others how it was shared with you ?.

Yes it's true He does judge righteously, and when we refuse to share the same love,grace and mercy shown unconnditionally towards us with the world, we have judged unrighteously,freely give to others what God freely gave us, is the path of righteousness.
Listen pcamps..... I know that you love the Lord very much, stay on that path, keep seeking Him... He has something very special just for YOU !!

Blessings to you....
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Old 04-03-2011, 03:08 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,821 posts, read 9,598,384 times
Reputation: 1299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Munchkin View Post
There is nothing to debate !!
God's word is truth and warns against those who come to you in sheep clothing with a different gospel. By which I have learned through a few here in this forum who are...... trying their best to lay another foundation other then the foundation Jesus Christ laid !!

1 Corinthians 3:11
For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

The Holy Spirit will reveal to His people the lies of any heresy and I praise the Father for His Spirit who has taught me how to discern the voice of the Shepherd (my Lord Jesus) from the false shepherds, teachers through their false philosophy that they try to proclaim here.... amen !!

It's been a good learning experience.... He points out the twisting and error of their way and because of Him I now can discern it quicker then 4 yrs ago.....
He is building up in me a spiritual house, Jesus Christ and know that I am God's OWN POSSESSION..... amen !


1 Peter 2:4-12
4.And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God,
5.you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

6.For this is contained in Scripture:
"BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER
stone,
AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

7.This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve,
"THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED,
THIS BECAME THE VERY CORNER stone,"

8.and,
"A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE";
for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word,
and to this doom they were also appointed.

9.But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

10.for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.

11.Beloved, I urge you as aliens and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts which wage war against the soul.
12.Keep your behavior excellent among the Gentiles, so that in the thing in which they slander you as evildoers, they may because of your good deeds, as they observe them, glorify God in the day of visitation.



1 Peter 2:21-24
21.For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps,
22.WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH;
23.and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously;
24.and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.

And this is to why I will not argue with those who want nothing but to bring dissention, always baiting for an argument.....

And I would rather turn the other cheek and walk away from such individuals because we are to be an example of my Lord Jesus Christ, that He "while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously."

And I too trust Jesus for this strength because it is the Father in whom judges righteously..... amen !!
By which some thinks it is a weakness when in reality it is my strength in whom I trust, Christ Jesus, in whom gives me the courage to turn and walk away !!

Amen.... Have a nice evening !!!

Those who have an ear...listens.

Jesus very specifically says in John 3:36 that UR theology is a failed hope for the unbeliever.

As such God's desire that Jesus will fulfill Ezekiel 18:20...

And Jesus does the Father's will Matthew 25:32,33

Last edited by twin.spin; 04-03-2011 at 03:18 PM..
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Old 04-03-2011, 03:31 PM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 7,907,546 times
Reputation: 17782
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post

Those who have an ear...listens.

Jesus very specifically says in John 3:36 that UR theology is a failed hope for the unbeliever.

As such God's desire that Jesus will fulfill Ezekiel 18:20...

And Jesus does the Father's will Matthew 25:32,33
Amen.... Twin !

The Father is so wonderful and He will give His grace to those who will listen to Him regardless if we don't understand why He has made certain things the way they are in His plan of salvation and eternal life !!

We are to listen and keep focus in obeying Him no matter what, complete surrender in doing His will through His precious Son, Jesus Christ.... not our will, amen !!
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Old 04-03-2011, 04:22 PM
 
Location: East Coast
29,324 posts, read 19,355,034 times
Reputation: 2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Munchkin View Post
Listen pcamps..... I know that you love the Lord very much, stay on that path, keep seeking Him... He has something very special just for YOU !!

Blessings to you....
He does more of Him who IS Love.

and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.

When we are filled with the measure of the fullness of God we have no problem with him being the Savior of All mankind
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Old 04-03-2011, 04:57 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,691,104 times
Reputation: 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Munchkin View Post
Listen to yourself..... ? Your looking for an argument and I won't go there with you.... !
Have a nice day !!
I wasn't looking for an argument. I just feel sorry for you for being so gullible that you won't even consider that God doesn't require us to be more loving and forgiving than Himself.
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Old 04-03-2011, 05:05 PM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 7,907,546 times
Reputation: 17782
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
He does more of Him who IS Love.

and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.

When we are filled with the measure of the fullness of God we have no problem with him being the Savior of All mankind
Your last sentence and the last part I do not agree, but this is one of those things where we depart agreeing to disagree !!

I know my Heaven Father deeply and His voice is always calling me into His love..... revealing His mercies which are new every morning and giving His grace all through the day, all the time.
I know He has filled my spirit completely with the perfect measure of His fullness within me, by the faith He has given me through my precious Lord Jesus Christ !

He Has also revealed His perfect plan through His precious Son, Jesus Christ to all the world, yet, He tells us that there are those who love their own way, sin more then Him and do reject His perfect plan for their salvation from the darkness of sin and this world. Though it is difficult for some to believe and trust I will leave it in my Father hands who judges righteously.... amen !!

To Him is all the praise and glory for all eternity to those who will believe !
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