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Old 04-03-2011, 06:51 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,611,309 times
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The fact still remains:

God's desire will not be undermined Ezekiel 18:20

Whatever Jesus says is just what the Father has told him to say John 12:50



Jesus said:
John 3:36
Matthew 25:32,33

Jesus said it.....then so did God
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Old 04-03-2011, 07:00 PM
 
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And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
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Old 04-03-2011, 07:00 PM
 
Location: East Coast
29,340 posts, read 19,392,912 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
The fact still remains:

God's desire will not be undermined Ezekiel 18:20

Whatever Jesus says is just what the Father has told him to say John 12:50



Jesus said:
John 3:36
Matthew 25:32,33
Jesus said it.....then so did God
God believes in his own word,because he's a faith God. He believes that His word Jesus Christ accomplishes that for which ihe is sent out for

so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.Isaiah 55:11

I have not come to condemn the world but to save it John 12 :47

If he relied on the faith of christians especially the unbelieving ones of which there are multitudes(the churches and forums are full of them) nothing would be accomplished.

However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?" Luke 18:8.

If this forum is anything to go by NO.
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Old 04-03-2011, 07:44 PM
 
16,482 posts, read 8,404,111 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
If he relied on the faith of Christians especially the unbelieving ones of which there are multitudes (the churches and forums are full of them) nothing would be accomplished.
The kingdom of God is not in word, but in power:

"He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach liberty to the captives, and recovery of sight to the blind; to set at liberty those who are oppressed."

The religious heart is confused, it doesn't expect this kind of kingdom.
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Old 04-03-2011, 07:55 PM
 
6,220 posts, read 6,296,462 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
The fact still remains:

God's desire will not be undermined Ezekiel 18:20

Questions:

1. Why do you think God's desire will not be undermined in Ezekiel 18:20, but it will be undermined in 1 Tim 2:4?

2. Why do you think a soul dying = eternally alive in torment?


The truth can be understood when you realize the following:
- yes the souls that sins dies; we have all sinned and we all die
- there is a resurrection, so all will be made alive
- God always achieves His desire
- therefore all will be saved even though we all die now
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Old 04-03-2011, 10:35 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,611,309 times
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Being we've been over this before, I'll answer for the sake of others who might read this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Questions:

1. Why do you think God's desire will not be undermined in Ezekiel 18:20, but it will be undermined in 1 Tim 2:4?
because being both are true (Ezekiel 18:20 and 1 Tim 2:4), your supposition and then conclusion that 1 Tim 2:4 is being undermined is accusing God of wrong doing. You are ultimately challanging God ... I'm claiming you are rejecting the later half of the truth of Ezekiel.

Being that both are true, then intellectual honesty demands that the "all" is saved is not meant to be "all inclusive.

Why not "all"..? Ezekiel 18:20, John 3:36, Matthew 25 is the truth.


Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
2. Why do you think a soul dying = eternally alive in torment?
Two main reasons:
1.) Jesus said that who ever believes will never die.
2.) It is wanton distortion to say that "eternal" only applies to heaven but then not to hell.
3.) Jesus said it will happen,.. Jesus said they will never be able enter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
The truth can be understood when you realize the following:
- yes the souls that sins dies; we have all sinned and we all die
- there is a resurrection, so all will be made alive
- God always achieves His desire
- therefore all will be saved even though we all die now
Your "therefore" conclusion is wrong.

The soul that dies..does so because it has been judged then sent to hell sole due to unbelief at death.
“I am the resurrection and the life.He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die.
Here is what you're advocating......it's a twisting of Jesus' wording:

UR would rather have Jesus saying:

“I am the resurrection and the life....
even though he dies.....He will live,
and "ALL" will live and believe in me ... you will never die.


UR leaves out belief (faith) as a requirement that God is pleased with
UR leaves out belief must be present before death
UR leaves out death as the end of time for grace.

UR ultimately claims two plans of salvation
UR ultimatly accuses God of injustice
UR ultimatly seeks to dethrone Jesus as Judge
UR ultimatly demands to know the Majesty of God

Last edited by twin.spin; 04-03-2011 at 10:44 PM..
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Old 04-03-2011, 11:42 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,463,816 times
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Twinspin wrote:
Quote:
Universalism is not of God .... "it has failed" --- Jesus
Ever since I read the title of this thread, I've been wondering why you put in quotations "it has failed" and then signed it JESUS. Did Jesus post the title, or are you his official spokesperson and implying that you are quoting something Jesus said? Just been wondering....
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Old 04-04-2011, 04:28 AM
 
Location: East Coast
29,340 posts, read 19,392,912 times
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The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.Ezekiel 18:20

Why you believe this is talking about eternal torment or annihilation is beyond me. To be carnally minded is sin and death, God is not mocked a man reaps whay he sows in this life, in this life Twin, none of us are exempt from this law God has set in place, not even the bible quoting unbelieving christians are exempt from it.We all reap what we sow in this life.
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Old 04-04-2011, 04:28 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 7,916,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
I wasn't looking for an argument. I just feel sorry for you for being so gullible that you won't even consider that God doesn't require us to be more loving and forgiving than Himself.
Then forgive me for suggesting you were only looking for an argument. And thank you, BHFT, for your concern, but there is nothing to worry as I know with all my heart that all is well with my soul.... for my Redeemer Jesus Christ lives within my heart, for it is in Him that I live and move and have my being... amen !!

Maybe one should go to the Lord in prayer and seek Him about their considerations, requirements about love and forgiveness till one hears from God and for the reason to why one struggles with them so much the way they do.....

He will answer a heart that is seeking in sincerity and honesty and bless it with the gospel of peace, Jesus Christ !!

~God loves you.... BHFT, amen !
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Old 04-04-2011, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
56,442 posts, read 30,584,984 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
If he relied on the faith of christians especially the unbelieving ones of which there are multitudes(the churches and forums are full of them) nothing would be accomplished.

However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?" Luke 18:8.

If this forum is anything to go by NO.
heh-heh. Judgment has been passed.
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