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Old 04-01-2011, 09:20 PM
 
Location: East Coast
29,757 posts, read 19,750,402 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
It is not a lie. You claim everyone is saved, so it is indeed same as telling someone they will not die if they jump off a skyscraper. You are telling them they might twist an ankle, but not to worry, because they won't die.

No, my faith is not a joke, it is the "you are a moloch worshipper" comments from you people which I consider a joke.
I suppose you have never once said that universalism is of the devil ?.Thank God the believer doesn't get all upset but see's himself blessed when they are called all manner of evil .

"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.Matt 5:11
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Old 04-01-2011, 09:22 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,530,357 times
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Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Finn_Jarber, I'm a universalist. I DO NOT claim everyone is saved. I repeat, I DO NOT CLAIM that everyone is saved. Get that? What I do believe is that everyone WILL BE SAVED in due time. But I DO NOT claim that everyone is saved NOW.
I get it. Wish everyone got it. But I'm not the one who orders things in my time. God orders all things in His time. Until one understands God's sovereignty, life in this realm is much more confusing.
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Old 04-01-2011, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,530,357 times
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Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
i sometimes feel the fundies want eternal hell for some people,but i beleive God would never want such a thing,and so his will will be done,what He want's will happen,not even a blade of grass moves without His will.
Amen. Satan tried to get Jesus to command that stones be made into bread. Think of the spiritual implications of that! "If thou art the Son of God...."
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Old 04-01-2011, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
They are not afraid to challenge God. Their challenge is always the same old atheist mantra: "how can a loving God punish people".
Not so. I pray every day that God will punish people, particularly those in high places who oppress the poor, as well as expose the religious hypocrites who would not lift a finger to bring someone to the Father. I'm all in favor of God punishing people. But His punishments are JUST, not wicked and unfair as the ETer teaches. God judges individuals according to their works, not their words. (Except in the ET mindset where someone just says 'Jesus' and supposedly all consequences are magically wiped away).
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Old 04-01-2011, 09:32 PM
 
Location: East Coast
29,757 posts, read 19,750,402 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
I get it. Wish everyone got it. But I'm not the one who orders things in my time. God orders all things in His time. Until one understands God's sovereignty, life in this realm is much more confusing.
Yes there is order, and all come in order, there's no jumping the queue, we come when God appoints and not before. If there's appointed a time for men to die, there's also an appointed time for him to live.

When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed to life age enduring believed.Acts 13:48

When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways Acts 3:26
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Old 04-01-2011, 09:38 PM
 
Location: East Coast
29,757 posts, read 19,750,402 times
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Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Not so. I pray every day that God will punish people, particularly those in high places who oppress the poor, as well as expose the religious hypocrites who would not lift a finger to bring someone to the Father. I'm all in favor of God punishing people. But His punishments are JUST, not wicked and unfair as the ETer teaches. God judges individuals according to their works, not their words. (Except in the ET mindset where someone just says 'Jesus' and supposedly all consequences are magically wiped away).
Yes there are far to many of us thinking "i believe in Jesus and the bible" is some kind of get out of jail card. It's no different to saying Abraham is our Father and we believe in the law of Moses .
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Old 04-01-2011, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Actually the UR version is scarier. A UR told me that I will be tortured much more severely than unbelievers and it's all because of my faith.
Well, Jesus said that if we do not repent we will not get out of prison until we pay the very last farthing. He said that to those who were abusing the brethren in his absence (while the master was away, certain ones began beating the other servants). That is a far cry from what the churches teach, such as the easy-breezy Once Saved Always Saved because one "made a decision" or "walked the isle" or "got baptized", etc... and my how they use the name of Jesus to justify hating others (such as those who are of other faiths, i.e. Muslim, Jew, Hindu, etc... and hoping they are burnt alive for all eternity. Frankly, how could any doctrine be more completely wicked than the doctrine of Eternal Torment in literal fire??? And that such a vile doctrine is pinned to the name of Jesus (nailed to him!) is such a crime. I can only say I'd not want to be in the shoes of the stiff-necked, stubborn ET teacher.
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Old 04-01-2011, 10:23 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,738,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Yes there are far to many of us thinking "i believe in Jesus and the bible" is some kind of get out of jail card. It's no different to saying Abraham is our Father and we believe in the law of Moses .
And yet....it's just the opposite thinking "God issues some kind of get out of jail card" despite rejection and unbelief of Jesus that is still be voiced.


God TOS still require: Romans 10:10
    • For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified
      • and
    • it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."
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Old 04-01-2011, 10:25 PM
 
37,059 posts, read 24,931,674 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Well, maybe I should allow you to describe the nature of punishment here. Tell us what kind of punishment do people face for denying God and living in sin all their life. It sounds like you are saying it is severe enough to scare people into belief.
It isn't punishment, Finn . . . and its purpose is not to scare anyone into believing . . . that is impossible. We believe what we truly believe (not what we claim). So scaring anyone is simply trying to get them to lie about it. It is a consequence of not having a Spirit free of unrepentant sin. ALL violations of God's laws (like gravity)have consequences. The remorse, regret, weeping and gnashing of teeth refers to the state of mind upon realizing the full truth of our negative impact on others during this life. It is an inevitable consequence of our exposure to God's truth and pure love . . . but it is no punishment. It is a self-imposed self-flagellation resulting from our new awareness, understanding and love for God and everyone else. "Kicking ourselves" barely describes it.

If you have ever hurt someone you love irrevocably pursuing your personal desires (no way to repair it or make the hurt go away) . . . meaning it permanently changed your relationship with your loved one . . . THEN you have a mere inkling of the kind of personal pain and regret you will experience once you are in the presence of the pure love of God. All our ignorance, obliviousness, obtuseness, blinders, delusions, deceptions, etc. etc. will be removed . . . and we will confront every single instance of our negative impacts in the light of God's TRUTH and we will be feeling God's pure love for everyone who we hurt. We will probably experience the remorse and psychologically feel the hurt we inflicted for the same length of time that it hurt those we harmed . . . for each and every one of them.
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Old 04-02-2011, 05:10 AM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,919,068 times
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Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Not so. I pray every day that God will punish people, particularly those in high places who oppress the poor, as well as expose the religious hypocrites who would not lift a finger to bring someone to the Father. I'm all in favor of God punishing people. But His punishments are JUST, not wicked and unfair as the ETer teaches. God judges individuals according to their works, not their words. (Except in the ET mindset where someone just says 'Jesus' and supposedly all consequences are magically wiped away).
and the thing is -this punishment is a type of mercy in-itself,to teach the spirit to let go of these impurities which only block the true potential of the soul,which is eternally joyfull,............God is the best well wisher of ALL and wants everyone to be happy and without the laws of karma(reaping what we sow)we would probly never learn and always remain in ignorance,of course their are probly many ways to learn,but like children,if we dont correct them they can very easily keep doing what they are doing,out of ignorance,and become alot less in charachter than their potential.
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