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Old 04-02-2011, 06:12 AM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,934,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
and my how they use the name of Jesus to justify hating others (such as those who are of other faiths, i.e. Muslim, Jew, Hindu, etc... and hoping they are burnt alive for all eternity. Frankly, how could any doctrine be more completely wicked than the doctrine of Eternal Torment in literal fire??? And that such a vile doctrine is pinned to the name of Jesus (nailed to him!) is such a crime. ET teacher.
madness
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Old 04-02-2011, 06:25 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,296 posts, read 20,040,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
And yet....it's just the opposite thinking "God issues some kind of get out of jail card" despite rejection and unbelief of Jesus that is still be voiced.


God TOS still require: Romans 10:10
    • For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified
      • and
    • it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."
Twin not true, all will eventually bow the knee and confess Jesus Christ is Lord. Like i said to you Twin you have limited the Love of God to 3 score and 10 years for each man, anything more is a bonus to him before he passes on where you believe, God ceases to be what he IS(Love). I could quite easily use the scripture which you Fundy's use to support so many times to marr the character and nature of God,and use it to speak of the wonder of his Love,Grace and Mercy that there is hope beyond hell for man, you know the one "my ways are not your ways, neither my thoughts are your thoughts, i could say his ways are passed finding it out to justify why God is able to save man beyond the grave too, but i refuse to stoop to that.I stand firm that God is unchanging He is Love,He's always been love, and always be love for our short stay on this planet and beyond it.

Bowing the Knee is not an outward thing, it's an acknowledgement in your heart that He is Lord, i bow the knee daily, but it's in my heart.

Confessing Jesus is Lord is also not an outward thing, it's an expression of God from within made manifest without.

This is why i reject "I believe in Jesus and the Bible" confession it's no different from saying "Abraham is our Father and we believe what the Torah says". Jesus had some strong words for those outwardly confessing this,he said you honor me with your lips but your heart is far from me.

Last edited by pcamps; 04-02-2011 at 07:02 AM..
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Old 04-02-2011, 06:45 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,417,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Twin not true, all will eventually bow the knee and confess Jesus Christ is Lord. Like i said to you Twin you have limited the Love of God to 3 score and 10 years for each man, anything more is a bonus to him before he passes on where God ceases to be what he IS(Love). I could quite easily use the scripture which you Fundy's use to support so many times to marr the character and nature of God,to speak of the wonder of his Love,Grace and Mercy, that there is hope beyond hell for man, you know the one "my ways are not your ways, neither my thoughts are your thoughts, i could say his ways are passed finding it out to justify why God is able to save man beyond the grave too, but i refuse to stoop to that, i stand firm that God is unchanging He is Love,He's always been love, and always be love for our short stay on this planet and beyond it.

Bowing the Knee is not an outward thing, it's an acknowledgement in your heart that He is Lord, i bow the knee daily, but it's in my heart.

Confessing Jesus is Lord is also not an outward thing, it's an expression of God from within made manifest without.

This is why i reject "I believe in Jesus and the Bible, it's no different from saying "Abraham is our Father and we believe what the Torah" says. Jesus had some strong words for those outwardly confessing this,he said you honor me with your lips but your heart is far from me.
Amen.

If you believe in your heart and confess with your mouth - you will be saved! That is a universal message!

Did you know no one can confess Jesus is Lord unless they have the holy spirit? This plainly refutes the idea that you can "choose" to believe without any influence from God.
1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Furthermore, this is the universal good news:
2 Phil 2:9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.


Rom 14:11 It is written: “‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.’

That is great news, because that is God's TOS (terms of salvation!):

Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.


Its funny how twin.spin somehow thinks that verse (Rom 10:10) refutes a universal salvation when it plainly says all will confess Jesus is Lord.
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Old 04-02-2011, 07:01 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,417,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I think it is rather accurate, actually.
No you don't get it.

EVERYONE knows if you jump off a skyscraper you are going to suffer a horrible fate, so of course you would warn people about that.

However, NO ONE knows first hand exactly what will happen after death.

You are trying to invoke some form of pascal's wager to suggest we are lying about what happens after death.

Finn, try to understand this. People have different perspectives and beliefs. Not everyone believes like you do, you may not have the truth. Trying to suggest, that warning someone of eternal torment is as obvious and plain as warning someone falling off a building, is simply being deceptive. If one does not believe there is an eternal torture waiting for you at death, then OF COURSE they would not warn you about it. In fact they might actually find it evil to scare people with such a diabolical possibility. Why would you use fear and extortion to scare someone WHEN IT IS NOT TRUE?
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Old 04-02-2011, 07:17 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,417,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightflight View Post
Funny though; it was the belief in eternal torment that drove me away from Christianity.
Indeed that is the sad thing. The concept of eternal torment drives people away from God.

It causes people to suffer in fear, or it hardens their heart so they become immune to the thought of what eternal torment would mean.


Reality check - What eternal torment would mean:
- imagine burning your finger on a hot stove for 1 second
- imagine the pain in your finger, and now imagine that pain over every square inch of your body.
- now, imagine feeling that pain for a hundred years, with no end in site
- but eternity is longer than that. Imagine every grain of sand on every beach on the earth. Billions and trillions of grains of sand. And imagine every atom that makes up each one of those grains of sand. Imagine each one of those atoms represents one century. Taken all together, imagine how long that would represent - millions of billions of trillions of centuries.

Can you imagine being burnt all over your body for that long? Burning for millions of billions of trillions of centuries? Well guess what. That is nothing compared to an eternity in torment, because at least this would end. ETERNITY NEVER ENDS.

And this is what our God who is love allows and purposes to happen? Or as some claim, "people choose to go to hell?" You have got to be kidding me. This is the sickest doctrine that man can come up with. Some people replace the "literal burning" with mental anguish and torment, but it is really no different. Mental pain and anguish and torture for billions of trillions of centuries with no end... for what?

And God stands by, nothing that can be done?

And we should warn people about this because its like warning about why someone should not jump off a skyscraper?

Ridiculous. If this were actually true, and you actually cared, you should be begging and pleading with every single person you meet so that they should avoid this fate. You would do this non-stop, there isn't a moment to be wasted. You wouldn't go to movies. You wouldn't have church picnics. You wouldn't even take a job, because your real job would be to explain this horror to every single person who would listen. You would never give up and not want to waste a moment not explaining this to someone. That is, if you cared.

This is the most ridiculous and evil doctrine man can come up with, the sad part is people believe it is a possibility, and thus harden their own heart to the reality of it all. People can only believe this because they have been blinded to the reality of it.
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Old 04-02-2011, 07:27 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,417,140 times
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And yet scripture tells us:

Romans 9:16 Everything then depends on God's mercy and not on what people want or do.

Please just read and understand that one verse.

E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G
D-E-P-E-N-D-S
O-N
G-O-D


That is why we have faith and hope. Because God is good. Because salvation is a COMPLETE work of God so none can boast. Because God desires and wills and brought His son so that all men could be saved.


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Old 04-02-2011, 07:31 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,054,830 times
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"Its funny how twin.spin somehow thinks that verse (Rom 10:10) refutes a universal salvation when it plainly says all will confess Jesus is Lord."

Hmmm, Yes, everything created does and will confess the Christ even the demons in whom confess and believed Jesus is the Son of God and Lord. Yet, they will not reign with Christ in heaven with the Father..... they have a special place prepared for them and those who follow their lies !!
So since all will confess the Son of God does not mean all will be saved !! We see through the word of God that Satan and his demons and all those who follow confess the Son of God and yet will not be saved, inheriting the Kingdom of God !!

Mark 3:11
Whenever the unclean spirits saw Him, they would fall down before Him and shout, "You are the Son of God!"

Luke 4:41
Demons also were coming out of many, shouting, "You are the Son of God!" But rebuking them, He would not allow them to speak, because they knew Him to be the Christ.

Luke 8:27-29
27. And when He came out onto the land, He was met by a man from the city who was possessed with demons; and who had not put on any clothing for a long time, and was not living in a house, but in the tombs.
28. Seeing Jesus, he cried out and fell before Him, and said in a loud voice, "What business do we have with each other, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg You, do not torment me."
29. For He had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For it had seized him many times; and he was bound with chains and shackles and kept under guard, and yet he would break his bonds and be driven by the demon into the desert.

Matthew 8:29
And they cried out, saying, "What business do we have with each other, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?"

Mark 5:7
And shouting with a loud voice, he said, "What business do we have with each other, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I implore You by God, do not torment me!"

Matthew 4:3
And the tempter came and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread."
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Old 04-02-2011, 07:37 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,296 posts, read 20,040,776 times
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Not one demon ever said Jesus Christ is Lord .Demons confess Jesus Christ is Lord by the Holy Spirit are you serious ?.
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Old 04-02-2011, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Southwest Arkansas
768 posts, read 627,037 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Not one demon ever said Jesus Christ is Lord .Demons confess Jesus Christ is Lord by the Holy Spirit are you serious ?.
Philippians 2:10-11 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.


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Old 04-02-2011, 07:52 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,296 posts, read 20,040,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onceahogalwaysahog View Post
Philippians 2:10-11 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

True.

Demons are not confessing Jesus Christ is Lord.
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