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Liberal churches tend to emphasize human rationality to the point that they lack faith and trust in a miraculous God Who is moving in their midst through His Word (the Bible) and the Holy Spirit. Therefore, Liberal Churches tend to appear to have a cold, mechanical, scripted manner of worship.
A liberal religionist posted this about liberal worship style on another forum:
" my thing is that i just generally don't get as excited as my contemporary worshiping friends, and when i think about their worship and mine, along with our general beliefs, it turns out that i am more liberal and they are more conservative. it's an interesting pairing. is it that liberal people are perhaps more apathetic, and so we choose something low-key that doesn't require a big display? i don't want to believe that is true, but sometimes for me, i think"
Liberal churches tend to emphasize human rationality to the point that they lack faith and trust in a miraculous God Who is moving in their midst through His Word (the Bible) and the Holy Spirit. Therefore, Liberal Churches tend to appear to have a cold, mechanical, scripted manner of worship.
One person's "cold, mechanical, scripted" worship is another person's "beauty of the Liturgy".
Liberal churches tend to emphasize human rationality to the point that they lack faith and trust in a miraculous God Who is moving in their midst through His Word (the Bible) and the Holy Spirit. Therefore, Liberal Churches tend to appear to have a cold, mechanical, scripted manner of worship.
One person's "cold, mechanical, scripted" worship is another person's "beauty of the Liturgy".
Yes, thank you. The Liturgy is beautiful, expressive, and even, though I be liberal, exuberant.
Are you familiar with Now the Feast and Celebration by Marty Haugen? We love it so much we sing it around our campfire when we are camping. I know that doesn't sound very expressive or exuberant and I'm sure our cold, mechanical, scripted songfest is off putting to neighboring campers, but to each his own.
To me, I would argue that churches that need rock bands and all the other performance trappings suffer from the entertainment disease, and tend to be fairly shallow in nature. I mean, if you listen to most modern worship music and it tends to be vapid and devoid of content. I mean, you're better off listening to Sesame Street than that mindless dreck.
Further, I would argue that standing up, clapping, walking on pews and whatever else you care to name has absolutely nothing to do with the fullness of that person's spirit. It would completely arrogant for you to assume that style of worship demonstrates the content of a worshipper's heart. This is the very kind of thinking that Christ warned against in Matthew Chapter 6 when he inveighed against outward demonstrations of piety.
Meanwhile, dissect most older hymns, and they are full of theological import as opposed to the pabulum that passes for modern Christian music today. Personally, I can't think of a more beautiful and reverent musical expression of God's grace and power than the work of Bach.
I agree, and I've attended both kinds of churches. Some of the non-traditional churches I've visited suffered from "entertainment disease" to the extreme. It felt like you were at a performance not a worship service. Audience participation and applause after each number, the pastor cracking jokes at one point, then using dramatic sound effects at another. Ick.
Ok, I was too overbroad in my characterizations. There are evangelical churches that use liturgy, such as charismatic Episcopal/Anglican churches, but perhaps I should not use them as a counterexample because charismatic and evangelical Episcopal churches today are very likely to worship in part with praise and worship music, lifted hands, and other contemporary expressions. On the other hand, I have heard of liberal theology churches that worship in a charismatic contemporary style, although they are the notable exception.
I also want to say that worship flows from Truth and the Holy Spirit. If a church that teaches the Bible as the infallible Word of God and Jesus as the only Savior and Lord worships in a liturgical style, then it is likely to have very fervent, live, worship. And I am not talking about mere outward appearance; I am talking about hearts turned toward Jesus in submission, obedience, and fervent love. If a church has a liturgical worship style and is fulfilling the Great Commission, lifting Jesus up, then praise God! Also, I am aware that there are some so-called evangelical churches (Joel Osteen) that have awesome, dynamic praise and worship teams, but do not handle the Word of God correctly or fully. Indeed, even amongst evangelicals, there is an epidemic of the "worship as entertainment" mindset.
The style itself doesn't save, God does. Worship is not only music, but the proclamation of the Word, giving, the heart of the obedient believer, and service to the Body. However, if the Word of God is not believed in power and Truth, then I think it will be hard for anyone to truly worship God in Spirit and Truth. God and His Word are inseparable, and worshiping Him, means believing His Word in all its power and Truth.
That being said, you can't deny the correlation between TODAY between traditional music worship style and liberal churches Protestant) versus contemporary/charismatic worship style and evangelical/conservative Christianity.
Last edited by Tarheelhombre; 08-23-2011 at 08:44 AM..
Ok, I was too overbroad in my characterizations. There are evangelical churches that use liturgy, such as charismatic Episcopal/Anglican churches, but perhaps I should not use them as a counterexample because charismatic and evangelical Episcopal churches today are very likely to worship in part with praise and worship music, lifted hands, and other contemporary expressions. On the other hand, I have heard of liberal theology churches that worship in a charismatic contemporary style, although they are the notable exception.
I also want to say that worship flows from Truth and the Holy Spirit. If a church that teaches the Bible as the infallible Word of God and Jesus as the only Savior and Lord worships in a liturgical style, then it is likely to have very fervent, live, worship. And I am not talking about mere outward appearance; I am talking about hearts turned toward Jesus in submission, obedience, and fervent love. If a church has a liturgical worship style and is fulfilling the Great Commission, lifting Jesus up, then praise God! Also, I am aware that there are some so-called evangelical churches (Joel Osteen) that have awesome, dynamic praise and worship teams, but do not handle the Word of God correctly or fully. Indeed, even amongst evangelicals, there is an epidemic of the "worship as entertainment" mindset.
The style itself doesn't save, God does. Worship is not only music, but the proclamation of the Word, giving, the heart of the obedient believer, and service to the Body. However, if the Word of God is not believed in power and Truth, then I think it will be hard for anyone to truly worship God in Spirit and Truth. God and His Word are inseparable, and worshiping Him, means believing His Word in all its power and Truth.
That being said, you can't deny the correlation between TODAY between traditional music worship style and liberal churches Protestant) versus contemporary/charismatic worship style and evangelical/conservative Christianity.
Well, actually, so much of what you wrote is rubbish that it's hard to discern anything acceptable. Instead, you string together a bunch of ill-founded assertions to square with your own aesthetics in an attempt to make it more spiritually pure. Which is a load of baloney.
First of all, you make the huge mistake of thinking you can tell what's in people's hearts. There is an enormous difference between inward faith and outward piety. How exactly are you able to tell the content of people's souls? Just because someone doesn't clap and caterwaul in church, does that make them less faithful? I've known people who fill seemingly every moment of conversation with references to God and Christ, yet live lives of squalor. Further, Christ is quite explicit in Matthew 6, the ethical core of the faith, about public displays of piety--even in the synagogues. Guessed you skipped that in Sunday school.
Second of all, you make the bizarre assertion that people who like traditional music are only there for the music itself. Does that mean that all music in all churches should be dispensed with as a distraction from the main point of the service? Again, an arrogant assumption. Golly, the Protestant faith managed to do quite well with Bach, Buxtehude, Mozart, Wesley and others for centuries without their faith being undiminished. Suddenly, we're supposed to abandon the rich, transcendent musical heritage of the faith because you want something a little more peppy? I don't think so.
In short, if you like contemporary worship service, knock yourself out. But please don't succumb to the conceit that it makes you a better Christian. Because, if you do, it means that you're not much of a Christian at all.
Well, actually, so much of what you wrote is rubbish that it's hard to discern anything acceptable. Instead, you string together a bunch of ill-founded assertions to square with your own aesthetics in an attempt to make it more spiritually pure. Which is a load of baloney.
First of all, you make the huge mistake of thinking you can tell what's in people's hearts. There is an enormous difference between inward faith and outward piety. How exactly are you able to tell the content of people's souls? Just because someone doesn't clap and caterwaul in church, does that make them less faithful? I've known people who fill seemingly every moment of conversation with references to God and Christ, yet live lives of squalor. Further, Christ is quite explicit in Matthew 6, the ethical core of the faith, about public displays of piety--even in the synagogues. Guessed you skipped that in Sunday school.
Second of all, you make the bizarre assertion that people who like traditional music are only there for the music itself. Does that mean that all music in all churches should be dispensed with as a distraction from the main point of the service? Again, an arrogant assumption. Golly, the Protestant faith managed to do quite well with Bach, Buxtehude, Mozart, Wesley and others for centuries without their faith being undiminished. Suddenly, we're supposed to abandon the rich, transcendent musical heritage of the faith because you want something a little more peppy? I don't think so.
In short, if you like contemporary worship service, knock yourself out. But please don't succumb to the conceit that it makes you a better Christian. Because, if you do, it means that you're not much of a Christian at all.
I find it bizarre that you attribute to me things I never said. Perhaps, it is you making specious assumptions.
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