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Why do you have to be so mean all the time ??
Not accusing anyone of anything..... stating a fact that universalism is not of God.
Sorry you feel the need to be so insulting tonight..... I do forgive you for it, Heartsong and do know God will show you the truth of universalism one day !!
I will simply repeat my point one more time CM, which is this: YOU, Cyber Munchkin, (such an appropriate user-name!) cannot separate anyone on planet Earth from the love, grace and mercy of God, regardless of what you believe, say or wish upon those who don't believe in your nasty, vile, and wicked ET doctrine. If saying so makes me 'mean' - fine, I'll wear it!
That you do not see the meanness in your own accusations (and they are accusations) speaks volumes about the state of your soul and the Spirit you serve. Your supposed "fact" is nothing but the opinion of those who have retained the ancient ignorance of our ancestors' superstitious beliefs about God. Your arrogance in proclaiming it as fact is further proof of your prideful and judgmental nature. You deny that those who follow Christ are Christian just because you believe in a different fate for those who do NOT follow Christ. There can be no greater accusation of the brethren than that, Cyber. We are followers of Christ who are no different than you as followers of Christ . . . we just believe in a different fate for non-followers . . . that's all.You are the insulting one in need of forgiveness, Cyber . . . from God. Check your own accusatory and judgmental nature and the Spirit you follow that causes you to so accuse the brethren.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong
I will simply repeat my point one more time CM, which is this: YOU, Cyber Munchkin, (such an appropriate user-name!) cannot separate anyone on planet Earth from the love, grace and mercy of God, regardless of what you believe, say or wish upon those who don't believe in your nasty, vile, and wicked ET doctrine. If saying so makes me 'mean' - fine, I'll wear it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong
As usual, you ignored the scriptures from Romans about nothing being able to separate us from the love of God in Christ. Your pompous attitude is palpable as ever. If you don't want to debate, stop accusing people of being false teachers. And someday you will eat humble pie.
The true heart, nature of universalism..... ^^^
I have yet to meet anyone in whom follows after this false teaching of universalism that the heart, the person, has truly changed to the heart, nature of Christ, believing and trusted Him..... The heart can only pretend for so long and sooner or later that real heart will show itself, it can not hide it's true nature for the light of Christ exposes its reality !!
Like I said, universalism exchanges the righteousness of Christ, and have suppress God's truth because of the sin of unbelief...."For their heart was not steadfast toward Him, nor were they faithful in His covenant.(Ps.78:37)
If universalism was truth we would not read such insulting animosity toward other's as we can see !!!
Those who have Christ (born again) honor, respect and listen to Him by faith through the word of God.... follow Him, they do not imitate evil as we read in 3John 1:11....."Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good, the one who does good is of God; the one who does evil has not seen God.
So therefore universalism can not be of God.... amen !!
With universalism it seems the heart is so harden with such animosity, fear, etc., for whatever reasons.... only God knows and only He can change but we can see once again with universalism.... God has spoken, "They come to you as people come, and sit before you as My people and hear your words, but they do not do them, for they do the lustful desires expressed by their mouth, and their heart goes after their gain. (Ezekiel 33:31)
'THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME. 'BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.'" (Matthew 15:8-9)
Also God shows and tells us that.....
"Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds." ( 2John 1:9-11).....
amen !!
Well how is this for "semantics" ... The doctrine of ET is the most violent and cruel and brutal doctrine ever taught by any religion throughout history.
Violence, cruelty and brutality are the most base and repugnant of all human characteristics, and many of those people who believe in ET and support it and have faith in it are the most brutal and cruel kind of people, while many of the others are simply double minded cowards. the rest are simply brainwashed and have no inkling of the history of the church and the development of the doctrines of the church as they exist today.
The doctrine of ET = infinite brutality and cruelty and breeds nothing but fear and hate ... Love and brutality and cruelty are in opposition to each other, but so long as you think you are are special, then its okay ... right? Who cares what happens to everyone else?
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 04-29-2011 at 07:47 AM..
God's "wrath" is not the same as man's wrath. Man's wrath brings destruction and is caused by evil.
God's wrath brings purification, and is caused by good.
Paul tells us in Galatians 5, that man's wrath is a work of the flesh.
James also tells us similarly: "The wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God." ch 1
Man can understand God's wrath by looking at how God frees us from sin in our lives. It is a process which is mysterious, powerful, and nothing at all like man's wrath. God's wrath is against unrighteousness, not against man himself.
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness" (Rom. 1.18)
Just a couple of thoughts that bear repeating, imo...
There is actually more Biblical evidence for annihilation of the wicked than either ET or universalism. Likely why serious scholars of the Bible are turning away from ET and embracing it.
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Perish and eternal life in this context are direct opposites. Same as in Romans...."the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life...."
The error made by both camps is basic and fundamental to the whole debate. The presumed natural immortality of man. The Bible is crystal clear on that issue, man is mortal. "The soul that sinneth, it shall die".(Ezek. 18:4) According to Paul man must seek immortality. (Romans 2:7) Why? Because, again according to Paul, only God is immortal, (1 Tim.6:16) therefore immortality must come as a gift from God,(Romans 6:23) and that gift is conditional on faith, for "the just shall live by faith". The gift of immortality comes to the believer at the time of the second coming. (1 Cor. 15)
To claim that eternal life or immortality is given as a gift to the wicked for the sole purpose of keeping people alive so that God's justice can be meted out is absurd. (In fact, ET means that God's justice can in fact never be fully met. Equally absurd.) Also absurd is the idea that man can enter a fire that consumes but not be consumed, an idea again founded on the false assumption that man cannot die.
Both camps echo the first lie ever to be told, repeating the first sermon ever to be preached by our arch enemy..."thou shalt not surely die...."
A very direct and easily understood explanation of the doctrine of annihilation, which I still think is the only Biblically-sound alternative to universalism.
I issued a friendly challenge to Mike and/or any other ET'ers in posts #31 & 38 to explain why Jesus never used the Greek word timoria (penal punishment, without any correction or rehabilitation) when He spoke of suffering in hell, but always used kolasis (corrective, rehabilitative punishment) instead. I said that I would seriously reevaluate my position on UR if someone could show me one instance of Jesus using timoria. None of the ET'ers took me up on my challenge, therefore I must conclude they have no instances to quote. That puts their position on totally shaky, if not unsupportable ground, for if Jesus never used timoria, then there is no basis for thinking He meant the punishment in hell to be of an eternal suffering in hellfire type of punishment. End of argument.
A very direct and easily understood explanation of the doctrine of annihilation, which I still think is the only Biblically-sound alternative to universalism.
I issued a friendly challenge to Mike and/or any other ET'ers in posts #31 & 38 to explain why Jesus never used the Greek word timoria (penal punishment, without any correction or rehabilitation) when He spoke of suffering in hell, but always used kolasis (corrective, rehabilitative punishment) instead. I said that I would seriously reevaluate my position on UR if someone could show me one instance of Jesus using timoria. None of the ET'ers took me up on my challenge, therefore I must conclude they have no instances to quote. That puts their position on totally shaky, if not unsupportable ground, for if Jesus never used timoria, then there is no basis for thinking He meant the punishment in hell to be of an eternal suffering in hellfire type of punishment. End of argument.
What did I say to you in my last post with regard to Kolasis? I said that you are in error to believe that Kolasis means only corrective punishment. I then showed you the definition of Kolasis.
I posted a link which states that Kolasis and timoria are interchangable.
What did I say to you in my last post with regard to Kolasis? I said that you are in error to believe that Kolasis means only corrective punishment. I then showed you the definition of Kolasis.
I posted a link which states that Kolasis and timoria are interchangable.
Now you post this nonsense.
Like so many, you are in denial.
At some point it becomes more than just denial. It ultimatly becomes arrogant accusations that is aimed against God.
"those who don't believe in your nasty, vile, and wicked ET doctrine"
The only humble pie that is going to happen will be toward those who think that Jesus is going to relinquish the judges throne by not avenging the blood and the persecution of the saints by evil men, sin, death and the devil.
The words endless torment, adialeipton timorion or eternal imprisonment, aidios eirgmos; do not appear anywhere in the Greek New Testament, at least not in conjunction.
Whoever, says, that there is an eternal (aidios) time set for punishment (torment) beyond this life is sadly mistaken. It's a limited duration of aionion kalasin (chastisement)
which is in view, but the day and hour that it begins and ends is unpredictable.
At some point it becomes more than just denial. It ultimatly becomes arrogant accusations that is aimed against God.
"those who don't believe in your nasty, vile, and wicked ET doctrine"
The only humble pie that is going to happen will be toward those who think that Jesus is going to relinquish the judges throne by not avenging the blood and the persecution of the saints by evil men, sin, death and the devil.
Everyone will reap what they sow, Some believers, and you could be one of them, will be told to depart from Jesus. You can only make a claim of denial for yourself, do you not do things in Jesus name, if so, then it could be you hearing those words and you may be dealt the humble pie your so sure someone else besides you will get.
I personally do not believe that what you will get will be what you believe that humble pie will be, but nevertheless, if you are correct about what it is, it may be you that gets it.
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