For all misunderstood, lonely people (mystic, Creator, soul, faith)
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Funny how, when I was very, very young my mother made a point of making sure I understood that God came before me. If she had to, she would take me and sacrifice me, just like Abraham. And she said this over and over while I cried and begged.
She never mentioned this Bible verse. In fact, I don't remember it at all. But I love it.
She's never been too happy about it, but one of my favorite Bible verses is: and now there doth remain faith, hope, love -- these three; and the greatest of these is love.
Pleroo touched something in me that is probably life changing.
You all have.
I think there is good and I think that we should keep being part of it.
If that sounds crazy, well, think of all the crazy things we've been told all of our lives. And we believed it.
I am going to believe in good and the good in others. I am going to stop believing in anger, sanctimony and one-upping one another. I'm going to see evil for what it is and turn my back on it.
And hopefully I will find my way. If I don't, so be it.
But I can't believe for a second that being kind to one another will sentence us to eternal damnation.
Hiknapster,
Nope there is no eternal damnation .... this thread has uplifted me, thank you all!!!!!
I was thinking that we all have our valley of doubt and varying degrees of tribulations ...........This psalm came to mind
Psa 23:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
Psa 23:2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
Psa 23:3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Psa 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. Psa 23:5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Psa 23:6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.
I firmly believe that this direction that religion is taking was written a long time ago. I think I'm finally starting to get it. It took almost 50 years.
I haven't talked to my father in well-over two years. I finally told him off - albeit via e-mail - and haven't talked to him since. I see his picture now on the internet "ministering" to the people in the nursing home. I truly worry about that. I'm not quite sure what he is capable of. He use to be the assistant minister of our church and then get in the car and often beat my mother on the way home. He'd swear, talk about everyone in church. Oh, if they only knew.
I tried to get back in touch a couple of months ago but he won't respond. I find that telling. It took 48 years to tell him off and now he won't talk to me. I always knew it was conditional love but it still hurts to see him prove me right.
I still talk to my mother on the phone, although I take frequent breaks. I won't allow her to badly talk about anyone, anymore. She really, really hates that. I have never heard that woman speak well of anyone. Not one person. I really think that she thinks she is going to be the only one at the pearly gates.
I live in The Bible Belt, although I was raised in Massachusetts. I think it's ironic that it took living around so many Christians to finally send me over the edge.
I wonder if there are like-minded people around me? I wonder where I could find these people? Do you all go to church?
About four years ago I started to research Christianity and started to no longer believe.
Now, I'm not so sure.
I wonder. I wonder if some of us are here to spread the love; to move past the others that are left quibbling about Bible semantics and spouting shallow cliches.
I wonder.
Wow, your story sounds a lot like mine, except my Mother and I are on excellent terms now. I haven't spoken to or seen my father in 10 years now, but toxic is toxic and sometimes we have to cut family members out of our lives. Your father and mine sound a whole lot alike.
Relationships like that can most definitely turn you off and away from "religion", it did me for a while. When you see the hypocrisy of claiming Christianity and then the fighting, swearing and abuse it's just too much to bear and something has to give.....with you and I it was "religion" and false Christianity. I kicked it to the curb because if being a Christian meant being like my Father then I wanted no part of that mess.
I was a raving lunatic fundamentalist ETer until about a year ago, and then I learned the truth about LOVE through Christian Universalism. OH how glorious it is!! You're seeing the true love of God here that the UR's feel and express, and I'm so happy that Pleroo started this thread.
God bless you Hiknapster, I can feel and understand what you have been going through and what you're still going through. God puts us where we need to be, and right now it's here.
I hope this is an acceptable place to put this comment. I need a little advice. I went home the other day and my husband said, "I have some sad news. I can't be friends with Sam anymore." Sam has been his best friend for about two years. He's a very laid-back and nice guy who has been a terrific friend. The reason my husband said that is because Sam told him that he and his girlfriend got into a big argument, she hit him first, and then he punched her, breaking her nose! This is terrible and sad and we can hardly believe it happened.
Sam is very nice, but his girlfriend is not nice at all. She even told me the very FIRST time we met, "I hate people," meaning pretty much all people. Needless to say, I didn't have a lot of hope for a close friendship at that point. She is negative about everything and is usually a real pain to even spend a few hours with. We have no idea what he sees in her. He broke up with her once because she was jealous of his 5-year-old son and he couldn't take it anymore, but then they got back together. I don't want to blame the victim, BUT he was a victim too, since she hit him first. And she probably just finally pushed him over the edge with her nastiness.
My husband said he cannot be friends with someone who would hit a woman. He says there's no excuse whatsoever. His friend wasn't drinking, so it was all just anger but we don't know what the fight was about. The advice I need is how to counsel my husband. I told him not to rush into telling Sam he could no longer be his friend, because maybe he could help him.
I can see that his girlfriend needs God's love to infiltrate her heart, so she can truly love and know love. (She has told me she hates people, plants, most food, and several other things. She loves animals, though.) She had an unusual childhood because her daddy married a woman from overseas and brought her here. Her mother was miserable and missed her family and went home, leaving the little girl behind when she was 2, and she hasn't contacted her since. Her grandmother raised her and her daddy was not nice to her. I don't know all the details, but her grandmother died two or three years ago and she took it really hard. I believe she has never felt completely loved since she was rejected by her parents. Also, her teenage son is out of control and in and out of juvenile detention. The "old-man-Me" wants to call her the "b" word, but the "new-man-Me" knows she's simply hurting and sad inside her soul. I don't know how I can help her other than to pray for her, which I don't do often enough.
I think my husband should make it CLEAR that he does not condone his friend's behavior, but not abandon the friendship. It's my opinion that he should counsel him to leave the relationship (if she doesn't break it off) because they bring out the worst in each other, not the best. Any advice is welcome.
I am not all that good at practical advice, being rather young. However, I am somewhat skeptical about changing people to the better by outside influence. People must WANT to change first. If Sam and his girlfriend really bring the worst in each other (as you said), they are almost certainly better off separated.
If we are speaking about Bible (I am not Christian, but I am somewhat knowledgeable about the subject), in the Old Testament God would often completely refuse to listen to prayers of people who did evil, or failed to live up to some responsibility.
Some say that this is because God is holy and therefore gets angry all the time. George Macdonald saw this differently. He believed that some people are so evil that the only thing you can do to them is temporally cut them off from all help till they get the memo. Some people abuse goodwill of others to manipulate and deceive and all you can achieve by helping them is enable them. I have seen that sort of thing first hand. Think of it like forcing drug addict to go cold turkey. (Many say George Macdonald was Christian Universalist, but I think he was hopeful, not dogmatic about everyone being saved.)
Spoiler
For example, in his novel Lilith (available for free on project Gutenberg), main character finds himself in the kingdom run by fallen angel named Lilith. She basically hates the whole world and drinks blood of people so she could live on forever. She kills off all her children so no one can succeed her. Main character even saves her life (not knowing what she was) and she demands to know why he did that, refusing to believe that it was done out of decency (she later tries to use him rather ruthlessly). In the end God casted Lilith to outer darkness separating her from anything she could corrupt. Her only way out was to show genuine remorse (which she eventually did, although reluctantly) .
The novel is somewhat surreal, long and hard to follow so I can't really recommend you to read it.
What I have seen so far proves to me beyond all doubt that true evil exists. It is not simply the result of screwed up childhood (although that certainly helps). Some people chose that and there is only so much one can do. It is possible evil won't exist forever, but right now it exists and one has to keep it in mind. The only reason why I sometimes consider myself conservative is because conservatives are generally aware of existence of evil, while too many liberals are in denial.
All in all, I think it would probably be a good idea for Sam to separate from that woman, if the whole thing was like he said. Although, I am much more worried about that boy.
I am not all that good at practical advice, being rather young. However, I am somewhat skeptical about changing people to the better by outside influence. People must WANT to change first. If Sam and his girlfriend really bring the worst in each other (as you said), they are almost certainly better off separated.
If we are speaking about Bible (I am not Christian, but I am somewhat knowledgeable about the subject), in the Old Testament God would often completely refuse to listen to prayers of people who did evil, or failed to live up to some responsibility.
Some say that this is because God is holy and therefore gets angry all the time. George Macdonald saw this differently. He believed that some people are so evil that the only thing you can do to them is temporally cut them off from all help till they get the memo. Some people abuse goodwill of others to manipulate and deceive and all you can achieve by helping them is enable them. I have seen that sort of thing first hand. Think of it like forcing drug addict to go cold turkey. (Many say George Macdonald was Christian Universalist, but I think he was hopeful, not dogmatic about everyone being saved.)
What I have seen so far proves to me beyond all doubt that true evil exists. It is not simply result of screwed up childhood (although that certainly helps). Some people chose that and there is only so much one can do. It is possible evil won't exist forever, but right now it exists and one has to keep it in mind.
All in all, I think it would probably be a good idea for Sam to separate from that woman, if the whole thing was like he said. Although, I am much more worried about that boy.
Thanks, python87. I hope they do separate because I don't see enough good coming from the relationship to overcome the bad. I worry about the children, too. I'm afraid I have to agree that people generally don't change because of outside influence. Wouldn't it be nice if they did, and we could just say, "Hey, you should do ....." and they would say, "OK! I'll change today!" He did talk to his friend today, so I don't think he's going to write him off. I don't think he should - at least at this point.
Thanks, python87. I hope they do separate because I don't see enough good coming from the relationship to overcome the bad. I worry about the children, too. I'm afraid I have to agree that people generally don't change because of outside influence. Wouldn't it be nice if they did, and we could just say, "Hey, you should do ....." and they would say, "OK! I'll change today!" He did talk to his friend today, so I don't think he's going to write him off. I don't think he should - at least at this point.
BHFT...it is good to be concern for others especially about your husband's friend and his relationship. However, as python87 stated...more than likely this friend would continue in this destructive relationship no matter how others would point out as to why it does not look good. More often than not...well-meaning intervention can only bring dissonance to the friendship.
Meanwhile...encourage your husband to be just a supportive buddy. Wrong relationships come to an end eventually on their own.
That's a trap that took me almost 50 years to climb out of. She's my mother. The little girl that cried and begged my mother is still here.
In fact, I've done everything short of stand on her head but to no avail. And really, if I thought it would help I would take this old, out-of-shape body and stand on my head.
My mother is a very angry woman. She's been mad at me for being alive all of these years. She has practically told me that if there were legal abortions she would have had one. She never lets me forget that I look like him. My father. She calls him "him." And I look like "him" and I should be very grateful to be alive. She never lets me forget that.
And she is toxic to the point of where she has created a lot of havoc in my life and my children's. She has little to do with her grandchildren but when she does, even if it has been years she makes sure she does as much damage as possible.
This past Christmas, she managed to hurt my youngest child, the one she's never met. I drew the line at that. I still check in with her but I try to keep my distance as much as possible.
One must remember that she is really a sick individual, and giving her love angers her. A narcissist does not like love and will systematically exact revenge on those foolish enough to try to send it their way.
I mean you really want me to mess with a woman that used the story of Abraham to emotionally torture their own child? Seriously?
I believe in love. In giving love. But I also am not going to play the fool, either. At some point you have to protect yourself and I have to protect my own children, too. She's had enough fun for the past 76 years.
So yeah, it's nice to say "blessings" and that we share it with one another always. Terrific. But I'm not going to walk down a dark alley in a bad neighborhood, nor send my children down it, either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by python87
BHfT,
People must WANT to change first.
Amen to that.
There are two sides to every story, BHT. A woman's nose is broken. I've had mine broken four times. I don't care how angry someone is, breaking a woman's nose is unacceptable.
But like I said, there are definitely two sides to every story.
But it is not your story.
The guy is your husband's friend. If he wants to remain friends then so be it. If he doesn't, oh well. Let him decide.
That's a trap that took me almost 50 years to climb out of. She's my mother. The little girl that cried and begged my mother is still here.
In fact, I've done everything short of stand on her head but to no avail. And really, if I thought it would help I would take this old, out-of-shape body and stand on my head.
My mother is a very angry woman. She's been mad at me for being alive all of these years. She has practically told me that if there were legal abortions she would have had one. She never lets me forget that I look like him. My father. She calls him "him." And I look like "him" and I should be very grateful to be alive. She never lets me forget that.
And she is toxic to the point of where she has created a lot of havoc in my life and my children's. She has little to do with her grandchildren but when she does, even if it has been years she makes sure she does as much damage as possible.
This past Christmas, she managed to hurt my youngest child, the one she's never met. I drew the line at that. I still check in with her but I try to keep my distance as much as possible.
One must remember that she is really a sick individual, and giving her love angers her. A narcissist does not like love and will systematically exact revenge on those foolish enough to try to send it their way.
I mean you really want me to mess with a woman that used the story of Abraham to emotionally torture their own child? Seriously?
I believe in love. In giving love. But I also am not going to play the fool, either. At some point you have to protect yourself and I have to protect my own children, too. She's had enough fun for the past 76 years.
So yeah, it's nice to say "blessings" and that we share it with one another always. Terrific. But I'm not going to walk down a dark alley in a bad neighborhood, nor send my children down it, either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway
Maybe she is in need of some of your love!
May we learn to share it with one another always!
Blessings,
brian
Sorry brian, I agree with the ideal . . . but there is always a need to temper it with reason. We are NOT Jesus. There is also the very wise caveat . . . "cast not your pearls before swine . . ." Those whose "fruits" define them as swine are best avoided . . . and prayed for.
Sorry brian, I agree with the ideal . . . but there is always a need to temper it with reason. We are NOT Jesus. There is also the very wise caveat . . . "cast not your pearls before swine . . ." Those whose "fruits" define them as swine are best avoided . . . and prayed for.
Yes! I can love from afar. In my own heart. But for self-preservation I cannot carry it further.
I spent most of my life trying to love people and "fix" them. No more. I suspect all of abused kids do that.
But hatred will eat us alive.
So we can love from afar, quietly, and move on.
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She is negative about everything and is usually a real pain to even spend a few hours with. We have no idea what he sees in her. He broke up with her once because she was jealous of his 5-year-old son and he couldn't take it anymore, but then they got back together. I don't want to blame the victim, BUT he was a victim too, since she hit him first. And she probably just finally pushed him over the edge with her nastiness.
Wouldn't it be nice if they did, and we could just say, "Hey, you should do ....." and they would say, "OK! I'll change today!" 
He did talk to his friend today, so I don't think he's going to write him off. I don't think he should - at least at this point.
