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The ultimate purpose for which God allows the existence of evil and destruction is to answer the inevitable question which his creation should ask him, "why have you created me?" ...
The answer is summed up in a single word, "love", but we must suffer hate in order to finally come to understand unconditional love in truth, something which many on this forum sadly reject outright, not realizing that when they reject unconditional love, they are in fact rejecting the spirit of Christ and the only true God.
This is true.
And I also believe there are many who think they are rejecting God yet they are not, they are only rejecting the false image of God. Their focus is love. One day they'll understand that their focus was actually God.
How beautiful is that?
Labels mean nothing.
It is what God is doing in our hearts. (Each and EVERY human being.)
And all of this, everything happening, every unique individual is here for an ultimate good purpose. No matter how bleak things may seem, they only SEEM that way. Truth will break through all of the hard outer shells of our heart and He will be ALL in ALL.
LOVE.
How grossly misunderstood LOVE really is right now.
LAW. The purpose for LAW is to teach us that we NEED love.
That's it.
WE are learning.
Children are taught things, we are children.
"Do not steal your friend's cupcake"
Child: I am a friend because I won't steal your cupcake.
"Do not be mean to your friend."
Child: I am a friend because I am not mean to you.
"Do not push your friend down"
Child: I am a friend because I don't push you down.
On and on and on and on...
Until finally after years and years, they finally start to get the whole point of all the dang rules. They get the point, what is BEHIND all the rules, and they can finally TRULY, FOR ONCE say:
Child: "I AM A FRIEND."
PERIOD.
And it means something.
It's REAL.
Where there is love, there is NO NEED FOR THE LAW, because there is nothing EVIL to RESTRAIN.
GOD IS LOVE.
WE were subjected to this for a reason.
To learn. We're all in this together.
We are ALL loved by God.
And there is nothing that we could EVER, EVER, EVER do to make Him stop loving us. THAT LOVE is what ultimately and eventually CHANGES us. LOVE CHANGES US. What is LOVE? God is love.
And Jesus gave us two commands.
We need to move forward.
And I also believe there are many who think they are rejecting God yet they are not, they are only rejecting the false image of God. Their focus is love. One day they'll understand that their focus was actually God.
How beautiful is that?
Labels mean nothing.
It is what God is doing in our hearts. (Each and EVERY human being.)
And all of this, everything happening, every unique individual is here for an ultimate good purpose. No matter how bleak things may seem, they only SEEM that way. Truth will break through all of the hard outer shells of our heart and He will be ALL in ALL.
LOVE.
How grossly misunderstood LOVE really is right now.
LAW. The purpose for LAW is to teach us that we NEED love.
That's it.
WE are learning.
Children are taught things, we are children.
"Do not steal your friend's cupcake"
Child: I am a friend because I won't steal your cupcake.
"Do not be mean to your friend."
Child: I am a friend because I am not mean to you.
"Do not push your friend down"
Child: I am a friend because I don't push you down.
On and on and on and on...
Until finally after years and years, they finally start to get the whole point of all the dang rules. They get the point, what is BEHIND all the rules, and they can finally TRULY, FOR ONCE say:
Child: "I AM A FRIEND."
PERIOD.
And it means something.
It's finally REAL.
Then they will no longer need a single rule.
For they will finally have outgrown the NEED for the rules.
Where there is love, there is NO NEED FOR THE LAW, because there is nothing EVIL to RESTRAIN.
GOD IS LOVE.
WE were subjected to this for a reason.
To learn. We're all in this together.
We are ALL loved by God.
And there is nothing that we could EVER, EVER, EVER do to make Him stop loving us. THAT LOVE is what ultimately and eventually CHANGES us. All of us. LOVE CHANGES US. What is LOVE? God is love.
and Jesus gave us two commands.
Quote:
“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’"
Many who do not know that their acts of love are the true worship of the spirit of Christ and of the father shall be entering ... And many who believe that they cast out devils in his name and teach the traditional church doctrines in the streets shall not be entering.
One can only enter in love, for without love there is nothing at all ... One can enter with knowledge, so long as they have love, but if one has knowledge and not love, that one cannot be entering.
Quote:
"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing."
You know what they say, opinions are like A-holes, and everyone has got one ... Even if you believe that your fecal matter doesn't stink and that in fact your A-hole is really the fountain of life spewing forth living waters from the very throne of glory into the whole wide world for the healing of the nations ...
Now folks...PAY ATTENTION!...this ^ is a PRIME example of what this Scripture is speaking of...
...1 Corinthians 11:19 states: "No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God's approval."
Is this not the most vile thing someone who "proclaims" to be a follower of Christ could say to someone who loves God with all of her heart...mind...and strength.
There is no question as to who has God's approval here...and it certainly is not the one spewing filth from a filthy heart....how does that passage read..."...as a man thinketh so is he."...?...what comes from his mouth shows what state his heart is in...I don't know if I can stand all this "love" coming from you Ironmaw. What you said is awful.
God Bless you Ironmaw.
P.S....and the little "wink" at the end...just seals it..."He that winketh with the eye causeth sorrow: but a prating fool shall fall." Proverbs 10:10.
Now folks...PAY ATTENTION!...this ^ is a PRIME example of what this Scripture is speaking of...
...1 Corinthians 11:19 states: "No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God's approval."
Is this not the most vile thing someone who "proclaims" to be a follower of Christ could say to someone who loves God with all of her heart...mind...and strength.
There is no question as to who has God's approval here...and it certainly is not the one spewing filth from a filthy heart....how does that passage read..."...as a man thinketh so is he."...?...what comes from his mouth shows what state his heart is in...I don't know if I can stand all this "love" coming from you Ironmaw. What you said is awful.
God Bless you Ironmaw.
P.S....and the little "wink" at the end...just seals it..."He that winketh with the eye causeth sorrow: but a prating fool shall fall." Proverbs 10:10.
I rest my case.
LOL, i am only saying that your opinion is still just an opinion like everyone else, even if you believe that you speak for God.
I said it in answer to you passing off a fellow believers beliefs as mere "opinion" in comparison to your "opinion" which you claim to be absolute fact and the very "word of God".
You shouldn't read to much into it, as I was only intending to be satirical ... I can see that a sense of humor might not be so high on your list of virtues.
Lighten up Verna, live a little and stop being so depressing ... Its all going to work out in the end, learn to trust God and you'll see.
Remember, God does not require your personal sacrifice, but he does require your mercy ...
Peace ...
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 04-11-2011 at 08:37 PM..
Now folks...PAY ATTENTION!...this ^ is a PRIME example of what this Scripture is speaking of...
...1 Corinthians 11:19 states: "No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God's approval."
Is this not the most vile thing someone who "proclaims" to be a follower of Christ could say to someone who loves God with all of her heart...mind...and strength.
There is no question as to who has God's approval here...and it certainly is not the one spewing filth from a filthy heart....how does that passage read..."...as a man thinketh so is he."...?...what comes from his mouth shows what state his heart is in...I don't know if I can stand all this "love" coming from you Ironmaw. What you said is awful.
God Bless you Ironmaw.
P.S....and the little "wink" at the end...just seals it..."He that winketh with the eye causeth sorrow: but a prating fool shall fall." Proverbs 10:10.
I rest my case.
Let me see if I've got this straight.
That you, Verna, were able to provoke someone to say something vile is proof of your right-standing with God?
That does sound like something a lawyer would say. This incident makes me think of what my husband always calls ambulance chasers. Pity.
I do not have the gift of having sympathy for the extremely self-righteous, that is for sure.
He that "winketh" is not the only one who "stinketh" around here.
That you, Verna, were able to provoke someone to say something vile is proof of your right-standing with God?
That does sound like something a lawyer would say. This incident makes me think of what my husband always calls ambulance chasers. Pity.
I do not have the gift of having sympathy for the extremely self-righteous, that is for sure.
He that "winketh" is not the only one who "stinketh" around here.
Verna, let me some things up from my perspective ...
What you are essentially saying is that if other people don't believe the same way you do and live up to what you believe is expected of them then they deserve to be tortured and annihilated, and that they better get their but in line pronto because what you believe to be true is about to get really ugly. Jesus is about to go hulk our on our butts ...
And thats cool, i guess, at least from your perspective and the general perspective of the traditional Christian world.
But to many people, and even many Christians, its really just a bunch of BS, and it doesn't even answer the real problem in the first place. Its just fascism "in the name of Jesus".
So your opinion really doesn't do anything but condemn and who needs that?
Yes god will judge the world, but God will judge in his own righteousness and not in the righteousness of man, and God will be faithful to his promise and his purpose and not rely on the faithfulness or purposes of humanity.
But God has declared his intended purpose and that is to restore all things and save all people. And that is the opinion of many on this forum as well ...
And it may sound like allot of BS to you and to allot of other Christians as well, but we should at least be willing to admit that is just what it is, our opinion, and that however much we might not like to admit it, we might be wrong. Only then can we learn from others ... And that is the basis of a true discussion.
And maybe my earlier post was a little crass, but that is how i see your posts, and you just cant see it. I was trying to paint a picture to show you how your posts come across to me, while maybe getting a laugh in return. And maybe in was inappropriate, but it accomplished my intent nonetheless ... Sometimes you have to shoot the snake to spare the sparrow, know what i mean?
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 04-11-2011 at 09:14 PM..
Verna, let me some things up from my perspective ...
What you are essentially saying is that if other people don't believe the same way you do and live up to what you believe is expected of them then they deserve to be tortured and annihilated, and that they better get their but in line pronto because what you believe to be true is about to get really ugly. Jesus is about to go hulk our on our butts ...
And thats cool, i guess, at least from your perspective and the general perspective of the traditional Christian world.
But to many people, and even many Christians, its really just a bunch of BS, and it doesn't even answer the real problem in the first place. Its just fascism "in the name of Jesus".
So your opinion really doesn't do anything but condemn and who needs that?
Yes god will judge the world, but God will judge in his own righteousness and not in the righteousness of man, and God will be faithful to his promise and his purpose and not rely on the faithfulness or purposes of humanity.
But God has declared his intended purpose and that is to restore all things and save all people. And that is the opinion of many on this forum as well ...
And it may sound like allot of BS to you and to allot of other Christians as well, but we should at least be willing to admit that is just what it is, our opinion, and that however much we might not like to admit it, we might be wrong. Only then can we learn from others ... And that is the basis of a true discussion.
And maybe my earlier post was a little crass, but that is how i see your posts, and you just cant see it. I was trying to paint a picture to show you how your posts come across to me, while maybe getting a laugh in return. And maybe in was inappropriate, but it accomplished my intent nonetheless ... Sometimes you have to shoot the snake to spare the sparrow, know what i mean?
...the more you say the more you prove the point of my OP...and you just can't see it. Trying to get a laugh...? I'm sorry, but this truly is too sad to be a laughing matter...I'm not laughing...God's not laughing either. You think His Word is BS...well...do you think He approves of your opinion of His Word? I'm not surprised though, that you think that...it's just beginning to manifest itself more profoundly now.
Verna . . . I do not believe anyone here doubts the sincerity or the righteousness of your devotion for God. You know I don't. You, Betsey and ALL the traditional Christians have revealed your sincerity and devotion to the Bible and thereby your devotion to God. That is not and never has been in question, IMO. I and most of those who seem to be on the Christian Universalist side have the same sincerity and devotion to God in the person of the Living Jesus Christ and His Holy Spirit within. We believe that following His commands to "love God and each other" is sufficient. You do not. We will all find out sooner or later.
But our belief in Christ is what unites us . . . NOT what we think will happen to us after our death. You are concerned with ten things in your life . . . we are concerned with many, many, many more circumstances that fall under the umbrella of "love God and each other." You are concerned with ten specific "letters" of the law . . . we are concerned with myriad "spirits" of the law. I am confident in my knowledge and experience of our loving God that those differences between us will not matter all that much to God.
Sometimes you have to shoot the snake to spare the sparrow, know what i mean?
Yow - what a memorable image. I'll personally be glad when all the snakes have been shot. That is the main purpose of death - to remove out of God's Kingdom all things that offend. If thy right hand offends thee....,,, well, you know what to do .......
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry and you be destroyed in your way, for his wrath can flare up in a moment. Blessed are all who take refuge in him. - Psalm 2:12
"Make peace quickly with your opponent while you are on the way to court with him. Otherwise, he will hand you over to the judge. Then the judge will hand you over to an officer, who will throw you into prison. - Matthew 5:25
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I'll personally be glad when all the snakes have been shot. That is the main purpose of death - to remove out of God's Kingdom all things that offend. If thy right hand offends thee....,,, well, you know what to do .......
