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Old 04-17-2011, 01:18 PM
 
488 posts, read 873,424 times
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Here I'd like to mention three, that may be the most popular and frequently asked ones that can appear in the religious community!

There is no such thing as purgatory:

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14. Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." (Mt 7,13-14)

See it? There are clearly two ways mentioned! one to destruction and one to eternal life!

The Bible never mentions purgatory. The Bible is clear about hell, JESUS talked about it a lot in the gospels. Just think about the parable of Lazarus and the rich man! Clearly explained!

Now is the time to make a decision for JESUS, if you choose to believe in HIS offer for us at the Cross and read and obey HIS Word as well as his commandments of course, repent from your sins, and you will be saved.

Relying on "once baptized (as a baby) , always saved"

Someone who becomes born-again, will probably feel the desire to be baptized in water to publicly and outwardly express he repented and accepted Jesus... As a baby we cannot repent and make a personal choice for JESUS.. So therefore we need to be old enough or at an age where we can make this choice. The water baptism of a baby has no effect whatsoever, it is only tradition and a very false teaching from the priests in the Catholic church and other denominations.. sorry! (not to mention that many teach it is something that provides eternal security..) Just read the Bible and you will see it!

Praying the rosary as well as praying to Saints:

What is this rosary?If you pray to Mary, it is not Biblical. We honour her, it's clear just like we honour all the Saints, but DO NOT worship or pray to them..

Mary was chosen to be the mother of JESUS, so JESUS could come to this earth as a baby, although HE was and is GOD. Amazing, BUT, Mary was a person like you and me. She even had to be born again like you and me. She had so be saved like you and me. She realized this when she prophesied when she met Elizabeth who was pregnant with John the baptist, and she calls the LORD her SAVIOR:

"And Mary said, my soul doth magnify the LORD, And my spirit hath rejoiced in GOD my SAVIOR. For HE hath regarded the low estate of HIS handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed." (Lk 1:46-48)

"As JESUS was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, Blessed is the mother who gave YOU birth and nursed YOU.” HE replied,
"Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it" (Lk 11:27)

**Somebody who claims to be visited by virgin Mary is misled. It was never Mary, but the enemy misleading people. It is the devil disguised as her, to mislead people so they would pray and worship her instead of Jesus. The devil doesn’t care what you believe in, as long as it is not in JESUS. Because the enemy knows this is the only truth. If he can trick people by using Mary, he promotes for them worship another god and GOD clearly forbids this in HIS Word.

Worship God, Praise Him all the time and Let's avoid the teachings and traditions of men! Men cannot save us, Jesus Can!
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Old 04-17-2011, 01:29 PM
 
5,441 posts, read 4,686,835 times
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Yes, all three are false.
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Old 04-17-2011, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,300 posts, read 20,984,203 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
Yes, all three are false.
I agree with all of the three statements (that they're all false), but not necessarily for the same reasons as the OP. I'd elaborate on my beliefs, but it kind of goes against my grain to focus on why other people's beliefs are wrong. Moderator cut: edit

Last edited by june 7th; 04-18-2011 at 02:04 PM..
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Old 04-17-2011, 04:57 PM
 
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Many people do not believe in purgatory realm , but I have heard of people who say it is for all believers who are only saved but need to still remove corruption from their heart spirit and this realm is their for orientation for to stand before the Lord which will not be easy for anybody ,.... See many believers have false ideas and condemn their neighbor and have limited honor for faith in Jesus but Jesus still gives them His righteousness which will saved the worst of sinners and these people going into a righteous place would not be a great idea so their spirit will be purified in a realm other than Heaven ..... I have heard of Evangelicals say that this can take up to eighty years of purification........Then there is the issue of Baby baptism there people will go through confirmation of the Baptism and the laying on of hand for to receive the spirit ...........All people must get their young dedicated or baptized for the authority of the Lord can be on these young people otherwise the young of these Christians parent will have No blessing from Heaven on their lives and the Lord will not help these young people , which most can be lost without the Lord help ..... Many people have no Honor for the Lord and his blessing to help their young because of the logic of the natural ideas ........ Praying for the Rosary in faith to the Honor of Lord Jesus will open the hand of the Lord were all power is given and world overcomer will redeem the world of sin that were the world may need to be healed ..... those people who believe in the Rosary and have honor to the Lord and His commandment will be free of All heresy of thought , for the Honor blessing will be his.......There are many church who pray the Rosary and the presence of the Lord Jesus spirit will fall on these church were people are healed of issues....
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Old 04-17-2011, 09:14 PM
 
992 posts, read 3,176,361 times
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Quote:
Worship God, Praise Him all the time and Let's avoid the teachings and traditions of men! Men cannot save us, Jesus Can!
Aren't you just parroting the teachings of Calvin and Luther?
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Old 04-17-2011, 09:43 PM
 
992 posts, read 3,176,361 times
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Firstly, the doctrine of purgatory was held by pre-Christian Jews, post-Christian Jews, Catholics, and Eastern Orthodox, nobody thought of denying it until the Protestant Reformation, and thus only Protestants deny it today.

Purgatory is in no way an unbiblical doctrine. Rather, it is completely biblical on both implicit and explicit grounds. Implicitly, it can be derived from the biblical principles that we still sin till death but that there will be no sin in glory. Thus between death and glorification must come purification.

Explicitly, we not only have the witness of passages such as 2 Maccabees 12, but also the witness of passages describing our accounting before Christ in the particular judgment, including the especially vivid depiction of one escaping through the flames in 1 Corinthians 3:11-15. Jesus himself adds to this when he speaks in Matthew 12:32 of a sin which will neither be forgiven in this age nor the age to come, implying that some sins (venial ones of which we have not repented before death) will be forgiven when we repent the first moment of our afterlife.
.
.
Secondly infant Baptism is absolutely Biblical.
Peter explained what happens at baptism when he said, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38).

He did not restrict this teaching to adults.


He added, "For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him" (2:39). We also read: "Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name" (Acts 22:16). These commands are universal, not restricted to adults. Further, these commands make clear the necessary connection between baptism and salvation, a
connection explicitly stated in 1 Peter 3:21: "Baptism . . . now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."
.....
....


Thirdly, Fundamentalists challenge the Catholic practice of asking saints and angels to pray for us. But the Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us.

Thus in Psalm 103, we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Ps. 103:20-21). And in Psalm 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!" (Ps. 148:1-2)

Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In Revelation, John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). Thus the saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.

Angels do the same thing: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3-4).

Jesus himself warned us not to mess with small children because their guardian angels have guaranteed intercessory access to the Father: "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven." (Matt. 18:10).

Because he is the only God-man, Jesus is the only Mediator between man and God (1 Tim. 2:5), but this in no way means we cannot or should not ask our fellow Christians to pray with us and for us (1 Tim. 2:1-4), including those Christians in heaven, who have already had their sanctification completed, for "[t]he prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects" (Jas. 5:16).
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Old 04-18-2011, 05:10 AM
 
Location: Texas
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This looks like an anti-Catholic thread.

I won't involve myself with that (some of y'all are gonna be REALLY surprised at how many Catholic's you'll meet in Heaven!), but I will say this:

ANY teaching which denies the total sufficiency of Christ for all things is a false teaching. He doesn't need our help to ensure our health, our financial situation, our future, our Salvation, our eternal life or anything else short of taking His word to a lost and dying world. Anybody who teaches you otherwise is spreading a false doctrine.
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,300 posts, read 20,984,203 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billb7581 View Post
Firstly, the doctrine of purgatory was held by pre-Christian Jews, post-Christian Jews, Catholics, and Eastern Orthodox, nobody thought of denying it until the Protestant Reformation, and thus only Protestants deny it today.

Purgatory is in no way an unbiblical doctrine. Rather, it is completely biblical on both implicit and explicit grounds. Implicitly, it can be derived from the biblical principles that we still sin till death but that there will be no sin in glory. Thus between death and glorification must come purification.

Explicitly, we not only have the witness of passages such as 2 Maccabees 12, but also the witness of passages describing our accounting before Christ in the particular judgment, including the especially vivid depiction of one escaping through the flames in 1 Corinthians 3:11-15. Jesus himself adds to this when he speaks in Matthew 12:32 of a sin which will neither be forgiven in this age nor the age to come, implying that some sins (venial ones of which we have not repented before death) will be forgiven when we repent the first moment of our afterlife.
I believe you're wrong about Purgatory, per se. On the other hand, I do believe that there is an intermediate state that the spirit resides in after we die while we await the resurrection. The doctrine of purgatory is, in my opinion, related to this teaching, which absolutely was a part of early Christianity. I believe that the spirits of everyone who has ever lived will find themselves in this spirit realm after they die, not just those who have committed certain sins and need to be purged of those sins prior to entering Heaven. My belief is that this spirit realm will be a place of peace and rest for the righteous and a place of torment and anguish for the wicked, but that as the wicked acknowledge their sins, repent of them and accept Christ as their Savior, they will be released from the torment and continue to await the resurrection in peace.

Quote:
Secondly infant Baptism is absolutely Biblical.
Peter explained what happens at baptism when he said, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38).

He did not restrict this teaching to adults.

He added, "For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him" (2:39). We also read: "Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name" (Acts 22:16). These commands are universal, not restricted to adults. Further, these commands make clear the necessary connection between baptism and salvation, a
connection explicitly stated in 1 Peter 3:21: "Baptism . . . now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."
If baptism is related to repentence, which the Bible clearly states it to be, it would have to be restricted to those who are old enough to have intentionally chosen to disobey God's commandments and then repent of their sins. I don't believe babies are capable of either sinning or repenting.

Quote:
Thirdly, Fundamentalists challenge the Catholic practice of asking saints and angels to pray for us. But the Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us.

Thus in Psalm 103, we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Ps. 103:20-21). And in Psalm 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!" (Ps. 148:1-2)

Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In Revelation, John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). Thus the saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.

Angels do the same thing: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3-4).

Jesus himself warned us not to mess with small children because their guardian angels have guaranteed intercessory access to the Father: "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven." (Matt. 18:10).

Because he is the only God-man, Jesus is the only Mediator between man and God (1 Tim. 2:5), but this in no way means we cannot or should not ask our fellow Christians to pray with us and for us (1 Tim. 2:1-4), including those Christians in heaven, who have already had their sanctification completed, for "[t]he prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects" (Jas. 5:16).
My biggest problem with asking the deceased to pray for us is that in order to even hear our petitions to them, God would have had to give them godly powers. I've heard people say, "Wouldn't you feel okay about asking a close friend, neighbor or family member to pray on your behalf? What's so different about asking someone who has died?" Well, if I were to ask a friend to pray for me, I would have to be speaking to him directly, either in person or on the phone, or through written correspondence. I couldn't just think, "David, (or whomever I was addressing), please pray for me today. I'm going in for that final interview and I really need that job. Please ask God to help me do well," and expect David to hear me. Likewise, I couldn't do the same with my departed relatives or with anyone who has died. We can't read one another's minds. Only God knows what we're thinking and only He can respond to our prayers. I believe that our departed loved ones can pray for us, but that this has to be on their own, and not because they can hear that we've addressed them.

I'm sorry that you have to defend your beliefs like this. This thread was obviously intended to target Catholicism. I really don't like threads that do this.
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,300 posts, read 20,984,203 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
ANY teaching which denies the total sufficiency of Christ for all things is a false teaching. He doesn't need our help to ensure our health, our financial situation, our future, our Salvation, our eternal life or anything else short of taking His word to a lost and dying world. Anybody who teaches you otherwise is spreading a false doctrine.
I don't think it's a matter of Jesus needing our help for anything. It's a matter of us needing Jesus' help. Just because we know He has promised to help us, both as we go through life and to attain salvation, I don't believe that gives us the right to sit back and let Him do what we are capable of doing for ourselves. I believe He expects 100% commitment from us, and that it is selfish and unreasonable for us to say, "I believe, Lord. Now you do the rest." I believe it's a false doctrine to think that our obedience means nothing to Him.
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Old 04-18-2011, 11:13 AM
 
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I really hope catholics, universalist, and the once-saved-always-saved Christians come to their senses before Jesus returns. If they do not repent, they will get left behind. I realized that more than 90% of the people I talk to for the past 2 years on this religious section of C-D will be either getting left behind at the rapture or whenever their day of death comes, sentenced to hell for an eternity for their blatant repeated rejection of salvation which our Lord provided for them by dying on the cross. I conclude I will be seeing maybe 2 or 3 people at the most from this section of the forum in Heaven. If you want to be saved and go to Heaven for an eternity with us, all of you people need to repent from your idols, witchcraft, atheism, universalism, and other forms of ungodliness. Prophets all across the world are dreaming and having visions of Jesus being prepared to take his bride home. You need to be washed clean by the blood of Jesus Christ. They are saying he is saying "Time is up!!". He could come at any minute. You do not wnt to be left behind and you do not want to burn in Hell for all eternity. Repent for the kingdom of Heaven is at hand!
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