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Unread 04-18-2011, 02:57 PM
 
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Default Not everyone who calls on the Lord will enter the Kingdom, but all who call on the Lord will be saved

Romans 10:13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Acts 2:21 And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved

Matt 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Thoughts?
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Unread 04-18-2011, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Romans 10:13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Acts 2:21 And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved

Matt 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Thoughts?
I believe the issue revolves around what is meant by "salvation." I see salvation as having different meanings, depending upon the context in which the word is used.

First, there is salvation from death, i.e. overcoming the grave to be resurrected. I believe that, as 1 Corinthians 15:22 says, "For as in Adam all die, even soin Christ shall all be made alive." This salvation is a universal one. If you have lived and died, you will live again, regardless of what you believed or how you behaved.

Second, there is salvation from an eternity in Hell. This salvation requires really requires nothing more than faith, i.e. "calling on the name of the Lord." It means acknowledging Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Savior God sent to redeem the world. That's basically it. This is the salvation I am speaking of when I say that I believe 99.999999% of all human beings will attain. (And I hope everybody understands that I use the percentage simply to make my point.)

Third, there is the "fulness of salvation" which is the chance to attain the greatest of all blessings God has promised to those who "do His will." It requires commitment, faithfulness, obedience and "enduring to the end."
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Unread 04-18-2011, 03:29 PM
 
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Indeed, the verses are talking about different things, but many would use Matt 7:21 to prove that not all can be saved, even though that interpretation would conflict Romans 10:13 and others.
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Unread 04-18-2011, 03:29 PM
 
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You know what? I'm so glad you brought up these verses. A month or two ago, I was reading an exhilierating vision of man who was taken to Heaven. He saw that there was a differance between Heaven and the kingdom of Heaven! He was taken to Earth to observe the death of a Christian who accepted Christ but died without repentance. He died falling overboard from a ship. His angel was watching him his whole life btw. But he let him die for some reason. I forgot. Probably because it was his time to die. But anyway, this man was taken to Heaven but was not able to get into the city/kingdom of Heaven. He had to be holy. So they made him eat from this tree of holy apples and grapes or something that would wash away his sins and make him clean before entering the city. Before he eat, and they told him about his fate, he cried hysterically and had to sit down because of the Lord's compassion and grace that he would still be allowed in the kingdom when he deserved Hell for the way he was living and his unrepentance. And he wasn't the only one outside the gates. There were many Christians who had died just as he had and were not able to get in the kingdom because they were not in holiness and died without repentance. If I find where I read the testimony, ill post it. It was truly amazing. But I don't know if its true. Could be. The Lord stressed repentance in the bible though.
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Unread 04-18-2011, 03:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
You know what? I'm so glad you brought up these verses. A month or two ago, I was reading an exhilierating vision of man who was taken to Heaven. He saw that there was a differance between Heaven and the kingdom of Heaven! He was taken to Earth to observe the death of a Christian who accepted Christ but died without repentance. He died falling overboard from a ship. His angel was watching him his whole life btw. But he let him die for some reason. I forgot. Probably because it was his time to die. But anyway, this man was taken to Heaven but was not able to get into the city/kingdom of Heaven. He had to be holy. So they made him eat from this tree of holy apples and grapes or something that would wash away his sins and make him clean before entering the city. Before he eat, and they told him about his fate, he cried hysterically and had to sit down because of the Lord's compassion and grace that he would still be allowed in the kingdom when he deserved Hell for the way he was living and his unrepentance. And he wasn't the only one outside the gates. There were many Christians who had died just as he had and were not able to get in the kingdom because they were not in holiness and died without repentance. If I find where I read the testimony, ill post it. It was truly amazing. But I don't know if its true. Could be. The Lord stressed repentance in the bible though.
Ahhhhhhhhh, ok...

So you don't know if his story was true or not. Enough said.

But you acknowledge that being saved and entering the Kingdom are possibly quite different things? So that would mean Matt 7:21 is not talking about "heaven" as its commonly understood.... ?
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Unread 04-18-2011, 03:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Ahhhhhhhhh, ok...

So you don't know if his story was true or not. Enough said.

But you acknowledge that being saved and entering the Kingdom are possibly quite different things? So that would mean Matt 7:21 is not talking about "heaven" as its commonly understood.... ?
No. Its not "enough said". It's actually a very eye opening testimony that you need to read. As soon as I find it, I'll post it. That's what got me to question if there is a difference between Heaven and the kingdom or city of Heaven.

I acknowledge being saved could mean something different than entering the kingdom but I'm not sure. I'm not gonna try it out to see what happens though. I'm gonna strive to live Holy.
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Unread 04-18-2011, 06:53 PM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Romans 10:13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
...everyone who calls upon Him with a pure heart...with all sincerity Obviously, anyone whoraises their hand and repeats after whomever, the thinks good! God loves me...I have no worries...it's all taken care of...is sorely misguided.

SINCERITY G1505
εἰλικρίνεια
eilikrineia
i-lik-ree'-ni-ah
From G1506; clearness, that is, (by implication) purity (figuratively): - sincerity.gen



Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman
Acts 2:21 And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved


...everyone who calls upon Him with a pure heart...with all sincerity Obviously, anyone whoraises their hand and repeats after whomever, the thinks good! God loves me...I have no worries...it's all taken care of...is sorely misguided.

SINCERITY G1505
εἰλικρίνεια
eilikrineia
i-lik-ree'-ni-ah
From G1506; clearness, that is, (by implication) purity (figuratively): - sincerity.gen



[quote=legoman]Matt 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Thoughts?[/quote]

If you call upon the Name of the LORD with a pure heart, and you change...you turn from your sins, you are His...if not...you are not...simple.

...nothing more need be said. It is quite clear.
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Unread 04-18-2011, 07:23 PM
 
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That's fine if you want to say that Verna (and allen or whoever else), but you have to be willing to accept the reality of your belief system.

The fact is, it could be you or anyone who is saying "Lord, Lord" but does not end up entering the Kingdom of Heaven.

Matt 7:22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

That includes anyone who claims salvation by saying "Lord, Lord" and claiming to do the "right things".

What assurance do you have in such a case? This is why this belief cannot be right:

1. there is no assurance
AND
2. it dependent on you to do the "right" things and takes away the credit from God
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Unread 04-18-2011, 08:17 PM
 
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Bible scholars divide "salvation" into:

1) Justification - Being born again into the holy spirit by accepting Jesus as your savior.

2) Sanctification - Living by faith and trust in his word

3) Glorification - The bema seat of Jesus and how we are glorified based upon doing his will.

So justification is just the beginning and is the gift of God, paid for on the cross ~2000 years ago for us.

Sanctification is based on not taking his name in vain, and living the word. It's a personal relationship with the creator. Based upon scripture, there is a hell that's reserved for judgement at the White Throne and is located in eternity.

The goal isn't just justification which is a gift, but sanctification. God calls us to do something.

Hope that helps.
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Unread 04-18-2011, 11:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Romans 10:13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Acts 2:21 And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved

Matt 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Thoughts?
I see and interpret "calling on the Lord" as calling on Jesus for mercy, similar to the lepers, under the covenant of grace, that were cleansed here:

Luk 17:12 And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off:
Luk 17:13 And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us.
Luk 17:14 And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.

Contrast that with those, under the covenant of works, that say (or appeal) to Jesus:

"Lord, Lord, look what I'm doing. Look at all my wonderful works. I've done this, and I've done that, all in your name. Aren't I great?

Big difference between the spirit of the two. The lepers are cleansed every time. Not so with the boastful and self righteous.

Better to be a leper.
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