U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Do Universalism and Non-Universalism ("ET") present two different gospels?
Yes, and I am a Universalist. 8 34.78%
Yes, and I am a non-Universalist (ET) 10 43.48%
No, and I am a Universalist 3 13.04%
No, and I am a non-Universalist (ET) 2 8.70%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-19-2011, 12:00 PM
 
7,780 posts, read 12,998,629 times
Reputation: 3434

Advertisements

I have a question and I'd like to know how folks here feel.

Since I believe this forum has a large amount of Universalists, it's one of the best places I know to "pick your brains."

If anyone wonders, I am not a believer of Universal Salvation though I do believe in a universal opportunity for salvation.

My question really lies at the core of both views (Universalism vs. Non-Universalism).

Is there two different gospels being preached?

Is the gospel of "UR" and "ET" the same gospel?

Or are the two sides presenting two different gospels?

Just wondering what the board will say.

The poll is visible so that hopefully trolls won't skew the results.

Also, can we please NOT turn this into another Universalism debate and keep the posts specifically about the similarities (or lack thereof) of the gospel message?

Thanks y'all.

~~Alpha
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-19-2011, 12:05 PM
 
6,220 posts, read 6,237,706 times
Reputation: 677
Couple points of clarification:

1. Moderator cut: orphaned2. What do you mean by "universalist" exactly? Someone who believes all will be saved through the saving power of Jesus Christ? (Also commonly called UR - universal reconciliation through Christ)?

Last edited by Miss Blue; 04-19-2011 at 01:53 PM.. Reason: spelling has been corrected
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-19-2011, 12:08 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,543,898 times
Reputation: 639
I wanted to take some time and elaborate on my vote which was no and I am a universalist.

First, the reality is that my belief that all will be reconciled through Jesus Christ will be considered universalism even though the label universalist come attached with many different beliefs concerning what it actually stands for.

I answered no simply because the Gospel of Jesus Christ is about Jesus Christ being the Saviour of all mankind.

Both perspectives acknowledge that Jesus is the Saviour of all mankind, the issue is what an individual thinks that means.

Within each camp, whether it be universalism from a biblical perspective or a belief that there is eternal damnation for some, there is much disagreement on many different issues from baptism to what being saved actually is.

This is why inherantly the root core of each perspective you are wanting a vote on is Jesus Christ.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-19-2011, 12:13 PM
 
6,220 posts, read 6,237,706 times
Reputation: 677
I have the same caveats about the label "universalist".

Anyway I voted "Yes" - they are different gospels. While there are similarities in beliefs - common belief in Jesus as savior of all, the differences are too great to call them the same gospel.

The term good news sums up the gospel, and IMO only one of those is the good news. The other is not very good news at all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-19-2011, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
20,165 posts, read 19,786,575 times
Reputation: 9065
I voted "no." I am not quite sure what you mean when you ask "are they different gospels?" To me, there is only one gospel, which is that salvation is through Jesus Christ. I believe that all Christians recognize that. What it gets right down to is how many people will the Gospel of Jesus Christ personally benefit. I believe that it will ultimately benefit virtually everyone who has ever lived, to one degree or another. I can understand how a person could read the Bible and conclude that if someone dies without having accepted Jesus Christ as his Savior, he'll be condemned for that lack of belief and will be punished throughout eternity. The simple fact of the matter is, however, that not everyone who has ever lived has even had the opportunity to accept Christ. If God is as loving and just as we Christians insist He is, then He would not turn billions of people into His eternal firewood for having had the misfortunate to be born at the wrong time or in the wrong place. I believe He has a plan in place whereby everyone who has ever lived will have the chance to (1) hear Jesus Christ's gospel, (2) really understand that gospel, (3) choose to either accept or reject it, and (4) be benefitted by it if his choice is to accept it. I don't think that I believe in a "different gospel" than the person who believes in the eternal torment of millions. I just believe there are more opportunities to accept the gospel will be given to all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-19-2011, 12:35 PM
 
5,626 posts, read 4,388,317 times
Reputation: 3773
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
I have the same caveats about the label "universalist".

Anyway I voted "Yes" - they are different gospels. While there are similarities in beliefs - common belief in Jesus as savior of all, the differences are too great to call them the same gospel.

The term good news sums up the gospel, and IMO only one of those is the good news. The other is not very good news at all.

I agree with this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-19-2011, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,393 posts, read 20,727,459 times
Reputation: 17399
I do not think they are preaching two different Gospels. The gospel, imo of course, is the good news that Christ came to present salvation to all without the sacrifices and rules of the OT. He brought salvation to all men, Jews and Gentiles alike and showed us the unconditional love of God through the miracles he performed on the less fortunate and worst of sinners among us among us, including adulterers, thieves and after death with the transformation of Saul whom we know persecuted the followers of Christ.

ET'ers and UR, imo, do preach the same Gospel of salvation. The problem, as I see it, between the two groups are the doctrines and traditions of our ancestors, our family beliefs and our pastors adding rules and red tape to the simplicity of the "Good News" down through the 2000 years since He walked among us in the flesh.

I believe with all my heart and soul that we are brothers and sisters in Christ whether or not we claim a label of ET or UR.

I voted yes but I do not claim either label.
__________________
Moderator of:
Non Romantic Relationships
Parenting, and sub-forums

Last edited by Miss Blue; 04-19-2011 at 01:56 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-19-2011, 01:41 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,785 posts, read 9,491,463 times
Reputation: 1290
They are completely different.

Universalism "Love" message means a gospel of "have it your way" not God's TOS [terms of salvation]

Don't believe in Jesus, I'll let you in .... "have it your way"
Don't believe in Jesus prior to death, - I'll let you in .... "have it your way"
Don't believe God is triune - I'll let you in .... "have it your way"
Don't believe Jesus is God - I'll let you in .... "have it your way"
Don't believe Jesus rose physically from the dead - I'll let you in .... "have it your way"

You believe in Buddah - I'll let you in .... "have it your way"
You believe in Mohammed - I'll let you in .... "have it your way"
You believe in Baal - I'll let you in .... "have it your way"
You believe in astrology - I'll let you in .... "have it your way"
You believe you are a god - I'll let you in .... "have it your way"
You believe that you're going to become a god - I'll let you in .... "have it your way"
You believe in ancestral worship - I'll let you in .... "have it your way"

You believe " God ....I'm coming in and you can't stop me" - I'll let you in .... "have it your way"


Universalism is a message of arrogance.. the usurping of the majisty of God. A satanic usurping.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-19-2011, 01:50 PM
 
Location: East Coast
28,534 posts, read 18,992,918 times
Reputation: 1968
It's a hard one to call. I know believers who believe in ET who are not under the wings of the system, whose message is God is love,and you never hear anything about ET from them.

Now i believe the message of the system is another gospel . So i voted yes it's another gospel, because i do not identify myself with it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-19-2011, 01:56 PM
 
35,784 posts, read 23,960,204 times
Reputation: 5701
The Gospel is the same . . . as the initial response to Mike555's "I Believe" thread revealed. It is all the garbage that is added to the Gospel from the OT concerning ancillary issues that have nothing to do with the Gospel that causes the confusion, corruption and distortion of the Gospel message. The non-believers in UR generally feel that there is insufficient motivation to follow the Gospel and be Christlike without all the ancillary garbage added. If only Christ's message is considered . . . it is the same Gospel.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2017, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 - Top