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View Poll Results: How did you come to Christ?
I heard the UR message and was drawn to the Lord. 2 16.67%
I came to know Christ believing in ET and grew into a belief in UR as I matured. 10 83.33%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-22-2011, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
34,679 posts, read 12,067,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
I came to Christ through the ET and still there, so to speak, however, i did not believe because of a choice to be made of heaven or hell...He just caused me to believe and it is hard to explain but i wanted to be there with Him, that was the desire i had...not fear of hell...So, when someone says that they came to Christ because they did not want to go to Hell...I have to ask if they had believed in vain...When one marries, it should be purely out of love, not out of anything that person has, but a desire to be around that person...their company makes you feel happy and at peace...my 2 cents
I also believe out of desire, not out of fear. When I say 'believe' I mean having a personal relationship with Christ.

Even the demons believe, and when it comes to people, many people believe Christ exists but they are not saved, and they also believe hell exists. After all, one would have to believe hell exists, in order to be afraid of it.
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Old 04-22-2011, 10:45 AM
 
Location: US
10,068 posts, read 3,749,393 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I also believe out of desire, not out of fear. When I say 'believe' I mean having a personal relationship with Christ.

Even the demons believe, and when it comes to people, many people believe Christ exists but they are not saved, and they also believe hell exists. After all, one would have to believe hell exists, in order to be afraid of it.
You were drawn to Him because of irresistable Grace...People may believe in the existence of Christ, however, what do they believe about it?...Many believe He was just a prophet, others just a good man...still others believe He was merely a charismatic rebel that got caught and executed and those that followed Him built up the 'myth'...However, If one confesses with the mouth that Christ is Lord and believe in his heart that God raised Him from the dead, he shall be saved.'...
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Old 04-22-2011, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 2,663,252 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
I attended a small Methodist church growing up. It seemed more like a Baptist church in a lot of ways, and I am a member of a Baptist church now.

When I was in the third grade I heard a sermon at a revival explaining the good news/bad news. I knew I had two choices: get saved and go to heaven, or don't and experience the bad news. It scared me big time, so I went forward, "got saved," and was baptized a couple of weeks later. I had some temper issues at that age, and I still felt it inside. My preacher told me my slate was wiped clean of sin, and when I sinned again I was sad and confused. Something didn't seem right.

A year later, during another revival, we were singing "Softly and Tenderly" and my heart melted. I felt God's love in my heart and I knew I never wanted to disappoint Him. The temper and anger issues got much better and I felt like a different person inside. I've always known that's when my walk with the Lord started. One time I was asked to give my testimony at a church function, and the lady who invited me told me not to say that because you can only get saved once, and that would only confuse people. I know when my heart changed, and it was not when I was just trying to escape eternal misery.

As I grew through the years, I was a "goody-goody" and didn't struggle very much with sinful behavior. I loved God and felt a close, personal relationship with Him. I pushed "the bad news" out of my mind and just hoped no one I knew would end up in that situation. I would see pictures of people from different cultures and think it was sad that they might go there, but I figured there was nothing I could do, so I tried not to think about it. I felt no calling to be a missionary, so I just thought I'd have to leave it up to them, although I did wonder if by these people being told about Jesus, that they were actually being put at risk. Somewhere along the way, I was under the impression that if people never heard the gospel they would be ok. It didn't make a lot of sense to tell anyone if that were the case, but I guess I felt like that was someone else's responsibility.

For 15 years I was totally immersed in being a mom to 3 boys. My oldest son had a terminal lung disease, and I lived to help him live. I didn't have a lot of time left over to worry that much about anyone outside my family. It might sound selfish, but if you knew all the details, you'd understand.

Two weeks after my son died, that huge tsumani hit. I spent most days on the couch watching the news coverage on tv. The horror of it kept sinking in more and more. What was the eternal fate of most of those people? Finally, I felt I had to do something. I stood up and actually felt a need to bolt out the door and shout warnings to help save people, to stop people on the street and tell them not to die without making a decision for Christ.

I just stood there for a moment not knowing what to do, and so I cried. I cried out to God, and asked, "What is it that you want me to do? I can't save these people by myself." I said some other things like that and then I said something that I was almost scared to utter, "God, why does it have to be this way? Why do all these people have to suffer forever? Couldn't you have come up with another plan? I'm so sorry to say this, but I just don't understand why this was your plan. Why couldn't Jesus' sacrifice be enough? Couldn't you just let his blood cover the sins for everyone? I'm so sorry, God. Please forgive me. I should not have said that. I am thankful you sent Jesus to die for our sins, but there are just too many that won't go to heaven." These things I said out loud, but what I didn't say but felt in my heart, which we know God heard was, "Why, oh why, God, would you burn people forever? How could you do it? Why?'

I felt more compassion for total strangers at that moment in my life than all the other moments put together. I cared, not just that my family and friends would go to heaven, but I cared about the people under the blankets lying on the sand, and the ones who got washed out to sea.

I did not get any answers to my questions right away, but over the next few weeks I began to feel in my heart that maybe God really wouldn't do the things to people in the afterlife that I was taught. I was doubting the bad news doctrine, and I felt terrible about it. Please note that the questions I asked God were not IF there were bad news, or IF he planned to do what I'd been taught, it was about WHY. When I asked the questions I was not doubting the doctrine. I tried to pray these thoughts away and I tried to repent for doubting the doctrine. When that didn't work, I googled, "Scriptures for proof of _ _ _ _" to build my faith (in that doctrine). To my amazement I began to read about the real interpretations of that word and it was not what I had been taught. All the scriptures that tell us the true significance of why Jesus died began to jump off the page and illuminate in my heart. He died to save everyone - and He will not fail. It is truly all about grace. I knew the Holy Spirit was confirming through the written word what He has been writing in my heart through the living word.

I felt as much like a new creation as I did when I was 10 years old, in spite of the fact that I was daily walking through the darkness of grief. I remember it all so clearly - the moments when I truly believed! I truly believed that everything about God is LOVE. I truly believed that Jesus is the Savior of the World. I truly believed that God is good all the time. I finally felt I knew all of God, and not just part of Him, while pushing away the part I didn't want to think about. I truly knew what the Good News is!!! I believe God loves each person who He knit together in the mother's womb, and He will never leave them or forsake them, and that He has a purpose for each life, and He will mold them into what He wants them to be in His time.

I never called myself a Christian Universalist until coming to City Data. Up until the events in the above couple of paragraphs (when I was 42 years old), I was a typical fundamentalist Christian from the Bible Belt. If my testimony above means I'm a universalist, so be it.

God bless!

Bright Hope for Tomorrow
I totally agree with sparrow about this post!
I believe sincerity ought to be a fruit of the Spirit (together with thankfulness). Your sincerity shows through loud and clear in your post, and I've read similar testimonies. Maybe we come to UR when we reach a certain point, where we KNOW God is Real and True, and yet we cannot reconcile ET with His Nature. If we cry out in sincerity at that time, He will open the door to higher revelation.

Many blessings to you, BHFT!
brian
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Old 04-22-2011, 11:37 AM
 
6,209 posts, read 3,815,312 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I also believe out of desire, not out of fear. When I say 'believe' I mean having a personal relationship with Christ.

Even the demons believe, and when it comes to people, many people believe Christ exists but they are not saved, and they also believe hell exists. After all, one would have to believe hell exists, in order to be afraid of it.
What do you mean when you say you have a "personal relationship" with Christ?
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Old 04-22-2011, 11:38 AM
 
6,209 posts, read 3,815,312 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
I want to thank everybody for the discussion here. Universal Reconciliation is a belief that I had never heard of prior to City-Data so it's been interesting (and at times difficult) to discover what URs believe and why. I hope my questions don't seem baiting or manipulative in nature, I assure you, I just want to look at any belief (my own included) against the Truth of God's Word.

It was this passage in Galatians that led me to these last threads I created (this one here and this other one here: (Universalism vs. Non-Universalism--Different Gospels?)
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospeló which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under Godís curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under Godís curse! Galatians 1:6-9
I guess my question is actually for those who answered in the first thread that UR and ET are two different gospels and then answered here that it was the ET gospel that led to a relationship with the Lord....

How do you reconcile the above scriptures to your testimony? In particular what caught my eye in reading this was the phrase "a gospel other than what you accepted". I have heard many URs say that they started their walk in more "traditional" ways (I hate the word "tradition") and then changed to embrace UR.

So, I just wanted to see what thoughts there might be regarding this scripture in light of that.....

Thanks in advance....
Hi Alpha,

I kinda figured Gal 1:9 would tie into this at some point.

But the question really is: what is the gospel?

Is it believing in eternal torment?
Or is it simply believing that Jesus came to save us?

And then the question becomes: what is Jesus saving us from?

And I fully agree that most are under God's curse right now.

... see Romans 11:32, Romans 8:20-21.

Also see Rev 22:3.
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Old 04-22-2011, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
34,679 posts, read 12,067,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
You were drawn to Him because of irresistable Grace...People may believe in the existence of Christ, however, what do they believe about it?...Many believe He was just a prophet, others just a good man...still others believe He was merely a charismatic rebel that got caught and executed and those that followed Him built up the 'myth'...However, If one confesses with the mouth that Christ is Lord and believe in his heart that God raised Him from the dead, he shall be saved.'...
Indeed. That's all there is to it. Uni's believe they have experienced a "higher revelation" as if they were some kind of spiritual elite, but that thought right there should make them wonder why God would reveal the truth only to a very small fraction of humanity (there are very few universalists), and leave 99.999% in the dark. That would signify a colossal failure on God's part. But no, billions of people have been revealed the truth of the Gospel. Some accept it and some reject it, but God has been successful in revealing His truth to humanity.
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Old 04-22-2011, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
34,679 posts, read 12,067,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
What do you mean when you say you have a "personal relationship" with Christ?
It means I have accepted His free gift of salvation and allowed Him to be my personal Lord and Saviour. I trust Him with everything I got, and I include Him in my daily life, I pray to Him, I read His word and He has given me the Holy Spirit to teach me about Him, and I believe I will be with Him for eternity.
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Old 04-22-2011, 11:55 AM
 
22,850 posts, read 10,726,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Indeed. That's all there is to it. Uni's believe they have experienced a "higher revelation" as if they were some kind of spiritual elite, but that thought right there should make them wonder why God would reveal the truth only to a very small fraction of humanity (there are very few universalists), and leave 99.999% in the dark.
Wide is the path to destruction (ET, Annihilation???) and narrow is the path to life ("love God and each other") and few there are who find it.
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Old 04-22-2011, 12:08 PM
 
4,067 posts, read 2,167,551 times
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"spiritual elite"

Hmmm. What an odd choice of words!
If anything, the knowledge of God's reconcilation of all has caused extreme humbleness in me. I want to see others elevated, not myself. Love does not sit "above" others. It stands behind others and helps them up. Sometimes folks see others in a very skewed way and I think that is the case here.

Personally, I DO feel that I have been shown something but I feel it is something that most people already know deep, deep down in their heart.

Truth is humbling. Not ego-boosting.
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Old 04-22-2011, 12:18 PM
 
22,850 posts, read 10,726,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
"spiritual elite"

Hmmm. What an odd choice of words!
If anything, the knowledge of God's reconcilation of all has caused extreme humbleness in me. I want to see others elevated, not myself. Love does not sit "above" others. It stands behind others and helps them up. Sometimes folks see others in a very skewed way and I think that is the case here.

Personally, I DO feel that I have been shown something but I feel it is something that most people already know deep, deep down in their heart.

Truth is humbling. Not ego-boosting.
Very good catch, sparrow . . .

Last edited by Miss Blue; 04-22-2011 at 12:25 PM.. Reason: deleted thr reference to Finn to keep this thread on topic
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