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View Poll Results: How did you come to Christ?
I heard the UR message and was drawn to the Lord. 2 16.67%
I came to know Christ believing in ET and grew into a belief in UR as I matured. 10 83.33%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-20-2011, 08:24 AM
 
7,767 posts, read 9,308,376 times
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Default Question for believers in universal salvation

I asked in a previous thread about the differences in the gospel according to UR(Universal Reconciliation) versus the gospel according to non-universalists (ETers as some call them).(Universalism vs. Non-Universalism--Different Gospels?)

My question (or questions) to those who believe that the UR and the non-UR gospel is different is this:

How did you begin your relationship with Christ? Were you drawn to Christ through the UR gospel? Did you turn from a belief in ET to a belief in UR? Do you feel like you grew into a belief in UR as you matured?

I'm trying to understand what it was that led you into your relationship with the Lord and how that changes (if it did) into a belief in UR.

Thanks!
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Old 04-20-2011, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
13,734 posts, read 9,173,125 times
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I love polls, but this one didn't have a choice that described me. I was raised from my earliest childhood to know that each of us is a child of God and that He has provided a means by which we might return to His presence someday. There is no talk of eternal torment in my Church.
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Old 04-20-2011, 08:48 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 6,008,485 times
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I think you already know my story Alpha, I was a hardcore ETer all of my life until recently. I came to know Christ as a little girl but I guess I never understood or accepted eternal torment, because it always bothered me and I questioned it.

UR taught me another way to read the scriptures and understand that eternal torment is not true. It was a lightbulb moment yet it took some time for me to completely embrace UR because I kept hanging on to what had been drilled into my head for so many years. The fear element of ET is hard to let go of because it's such a strong teaching and moving away from it requires lots of study and prayer.

But once I got to the point of letting go of the "fear factor" of ET, it was easier and easier to embrace the teaching that ALL will eventually be reconciled to God. What a glorious realization!! What some don't seem to understand is that nothing changes about salvation or punishment for disbelief, it's still very important to be saved in this life so that one will not suffer God's refining fire and judgment. The gospel of Jesus Christ is very much needed, for if it wasn't for what He did none of us could be reconciled to God. He is the bridge, our saving grace, our one and only hope.

I started a thread a while back asking "why Universalists believed like they do" that I'll put a link to here. If you haven't seen this thread already it's worth a read to get the Universalist perspective and try to understand more of where we are coming from. I see a lot of fear in the posts of those who still believe in ET, and a lot of condemnation. What I see and have experienced with UR and it's believers is lots of love and acceptance. If everyone would just calm down and politely ask questions like you have done we could get so much further with trying to understand each other.

Universalists: Please Explain Why You Believe Like You Do
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Old 04-20-2011, 08:51 AM
 
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Alpha, your poll question is a bit difficult because I would say both are true for me.

"I came to know Christ believing in ET and grew into a belief in UR as I matured."?

Hmm, yes.


"I heard the UR message and was drawn to the Lord."?

Hmm, yes again!



Perhaps it helps if you know where I'm coming from. I grew up going to church my whole life. I "got saved" when I was 5 years old. I asked Christ into my heart, I knew I didn't want to go to hell, and it seemed so simple to a 5 year old that God loved us so that He sent His son so we wouldn't have to go to hell.

I can remember trying to share the message of love in grade 1 no less! I knew we were supposed to love each other so I told people I loved them. Suffice it to say I was teased and ridiculed into oblivion as tends to happen with little kids. I can remember people saying I wanted to marry so and so because I loved them. (Remember this is 5 and 6 and maybe 8 year olds talking).

But I always wondered why people would have to suffer forever and ever. If God loved them, and God is all powerful, why would that have to happen?

So as I grew up I went through phases as we all do, sometimes I was big into church, sometimes not as much, for a while I was really into end times theology.

But it wasn't until I got married and had my daughter that I really started contemplating the fate of all mankind (especially my daughter) - the whole end times scenario, rise of the antichrist, mark of the beast etc. And this eventually led me to study and come to realize that God's love and power was bigger than we all thought.

Hope that helps.
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Old 04-20-2011, 08:55 AM
 
7,767 posts, read 9,308,376 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
I think you already know my story Alpha, I was a hardcore ETer all of my life until recently. I came to know Christ as a little girl but I guess I never understood or accepted eternal torment, because it always bothered me and I questioned it.

UR taught me another way to read the scriptures and understand that eternal torment is not true. It was a lightbulb moment yet it took some time for me to completely embrace UR because I kept hanging on to what had been drilled into my head for so many years. The fear element of ET is hard to let go of because it's such a strong teaching and moving away from it requires lots of study and prayer.

But once I got to the point of letting go of the "fear factor" of ET, it was easier and easier to embrace the teaching that ALL will eventually be reconciled to God. What a glorious realization!! What some don't seem to understand is that nothing changes about salvation or punishment for disbelief, it's still very important to be saved in this life so that one will not suffer God's refining fire and judgment. The gospel of Jesus Christ is very much needed, for if it wasn't for what He did none of us could be reconciled to God. He is the bridge, our saving grace, our one and only hope.

I started a thread a while back asking "why Universalists believed like they do" that I'll put a link to here. If you haven't seen this thread already it's worth a read to get the Universalist perspective and try to understand more of where we are coming from. I see a lot of fear in the posts of those who still believe in ET, and a lot of condemnation. What I see and have experienced with UR and it's believers is lots of love and acceptance. If everyone would just calm down and politely ask questions like you have done we could get so much further with trying to understand each other.

Universalists: Please Explain Why You Believe Like You Do
Thanks, Ilene, and yes, I knew you had once believed as I do and had changed to believe in UR (I'm sure this forum played a big role in that, yes?) I read something the other day that prompted these questions and I'd love to have your continued input. Thank you so much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Alpha, your poll question is a bit difficult because I would say both are true for me.

"I came to know Christ believing in ET and grew into a belief in UR as I matured."?

Hmm, yes.


"I heard the UR message and was drawn to the Lord."?

Hmm, yes again!



Perhaps it helps if you know where I'm coming from. I grew up going to church my whole life. I "got saved" when I was 5 years old. I asked Christ into my heart, I knew I didn't want to go to hell, and it seemed so simple to a 5 year old that God loved us so that He sent His son so we wouldn't have to go to hell.

I can remember trying to share the message of love in grade 1 no less! I knew we were supposed to love each other so I told people I loved them. Suffice it to say I was teased and ridiculed into oblivion as tends to happen with little kids. I can remember people saying I wanted to marry so and so because I loved them. (Remember this is 5 and 6 and maybe 8 year olds talking).

But I always wondered why people would have to suffer forever and ever. If God loved them, and God is all powerful, why would that have to happen?

So as I grew up I went through phases as we all do, sometimes I was big into church, sometimes not as much, for a while I was really into end times theology.

But it wasn't until I got married and had my daughter that I really started contemplating the fate of all mankind (especially my daughter) - the whole end times scenario, rise of the antichrist, mark of the beast etc. And this eventually led me to study and come to realize that God's love and power was bigger than we all thought.

Hope that helps.
It does help, thanks. It sounds like your story is very similar to Ilene's....at least as it's core. You got "saved" early in life as an ETer and came to UR later.

Thank you for sharing your testimony, legoman.
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 2,565,197 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
I asked in a previous thread about the differences in the gospel according to UR(Universal Reconciliation) versus the gospel according to non-universalists (ETers as some call them).(Universalism vs. Non-Universalism--Different Gospels?)

My question (or questions) to those who believe that the UR and the non-UR gospel is different is this:

How did you begin your relationship with Christ? Were you drawn to Christ through the UR gospel? Did you turn from a belief in ET to a belief in UR? Do you feel like you grew into a belief in UR as you matured?

I'm trying to understand what it was that led you into your relationship with the Lord and how that changes (if it did) into a belief in UR.

Thanks!
As I began to be "drawn" to Christ and God, I was blessed to have a dear grandfather who believed that God "doesn't make junk" and that Jesus came to save the world, and that God is Love.
There is much that has been a blessing in my early years as a Christian, more than can fit in this post; however, if I didn't believe that God loves ALL mankind and is able to save mankind, I wouldn't probably be here today.
And I think that many fall away because of ET. At first, it may seem "just," but in the end, it leads to frustration and discouragement. (something they never tell you)
If the UR message was preached more, we might have a stronger church without so many that "fall away."

Imo..!

Blessings,
brian
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:47 AM
 
4,027 posts, read 2,093,647 times
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I'm not really sure how to answer.
ET kept me AWAY from God. And caused all sorts of misery for me.
How can there be any peace if even GOD the Creator would do horrible things to people? The MOST horrible things a person could possibly imagine? No, ET kept me AWAY from God for the first 30+ years of my life.

His timing was perfect with me, I will attest to that. Things happened in a way that just...everything fell into place. It's personal, hard to explain.
I was drawn to seek Him out and so much happened on my path but to start to follow the commands to love my neighbor and love God with all of my heart, mind and soul... I had to get through what was keeping me FROM Him, the idea that even ONE human being would either be LOST or be ETERNALLY TORTURED? MY GOD! So onward I went, eradicating bad feelings towards people who were enemies to me in my mind, I wanted to LOVE. When the non-love that was within me started to turn into LOVE, I started to slowly understand the POWER of LOVE. The POWER of God. I started to slowly understand "Destruction" and "Life". What was at first full of dread and fear, became POWER AND LOVE!! It was pretty unbelievable. I mean the power of LOVE and that God IS Love, it blew me away. Absolutely blew me away.

It started to unfold in front of me. This wasn't just talk, this wasn't just pretty little sayings, this was TANGIBLE. Bit by bit, He brought me through the fear, through the horror of what I THOUGHT was so-called "truth". slowly, slowly... the veil lifted and I saw HIM on the other side of that fear. And the POWER of LOVE has grown more beautiful day by day. I fully understand why and HOW "Love Conquers ALL". So many questions and confusion about life and what this is all about have slowly unraveled for me, personally. And continues to do so.

I knew something was NOT right all those early years.
For the most part I believed in a Creator (although at times I did "hate" God or what I thought God was, and at other times I was agnostic and maybe even a bit atheist at some point or another I suppose.) Anyway, believing in a creator, but not identifying with this god that Christianity preached. Although I was drawn to christianity. I studied other religions for a short time and although I found truths and beauty, something was missing to me. And thank GOD the voice that whispered to me softly all those years that was telling me something was not right (with christianity), was correct afterall. Something was NOT right and by the grace of God, for whatever reason, I believe He allowed me to see it.

So, I really don't know how to answer the poll.
I was seeking truth no matter how much it would hurt. Seeking truth not knowing fully what the outcome would be. The initial journey was full of twists and turns and all sorts of interesting things. and I will never ever forget it. It was the single most important time in my life.
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:49 AM
 
5,470 posts, read 2,664,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
I asked in a previous thread about the differences in the gospel according to UR(Universal Reconciliation) versus the gospel according to non-universalists (ETers as some call them).(Universalism vs. Non-Universalism--Different Gospels?)

My question (or questions) to those who believe that the UR and the non-UR gospel is different is this:

How did you begin your relationship with Christ? Were you drawn to Christ through the UR gospel? Did you turn from a belief in ET to a belief in UR? Do you feel like you grew into a belief in UR as you matured?

I'm trying to understand what it was that led you into your relationship with the Lord and how that changes (if it did) into a belief in UR.

Thanks!
I was raised into the Roman Catholic belief of Hell and Eternal Torment. I later defected to the belief in Annihilationism as taught by Herbert Armstrong. I then, thru much debate, found universal salvation to be the doctrine that I believe God teaches.

However, I should state, that I have a bit different view than others with regards to universal salvation, for I still believe in a form of annihilationism. In that sense, I believe the "old man" in everyone must be annihilated in order to be saved. I believe WORKS are a requirement for salvation (not our works but His done thru us towards others).
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
34,184 posts, read 11,499,041 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
As I began to be "drawn" to Christ and God, I was blessed to have a dear grandfather who believed that God "doesn't make junk" and that Jesus came to save the world, and that God is Love.
There is much that has been a blessing in my early years as a Christian, more than can fit in this post; however, if I didn't believe that God loves ALL mankind and is able to save mankind, I wouldn't probably be here today.
And I think that many fall away because of ET. At first, it may seem "just," but in the end, it leads to frustration and discouragement. (something they never tell you)
If the UR message was preached more, we might have a stronger church without so many that "fall away."

Imo..!

Blessings,
brian
I noticed your vote and was surprised because I remember you once saying that you used to be an "ET" before becoming a "UR".
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:55 AM
 
7,767 posts, read 9,308,376 times
Reputation: 3388
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
As I began to be "drawn" to Christ and God, I was blessed to have a dear grandfather who believed that God "doesn't make junk" and that Jesus came to save the world, and that God is Love.
There is much that has been a blessing in my early years as a Christian, more than can fit in this post; however, if I didn't believe that God loves ALL mankind and is able to save mankind, I wouldn't probably be here today.
And I think that many fall away because of ET. At first, it may seem "just," but in the end, it leads to frustration and discouragement. (something they never tell you)
If the UR message was preached more, we might have a stronger church without so many that "fall away."

Imo..!

Blessings,
brian
So you, per your vote, didn't come into a relationship with Jesus under any other teaching than UR. Was this outside of church? Your grandfather taught you this and led you to the Lord?
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