For Eternal Salvation, Believe, simply believe in Christ.
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OK, I saw that, but I guess I missed your point. I now can see how you arrive at your conclusion the baptism is a work of human merit. I don't agree with your conclusion but I see how you got there.
Actually there are a number of verses that link salvation at baptism. The explanations that have been given are not convincing.
They are.
No, I most decidedly do not. We are not regenerated by baptism, we are regenerated by the Holy Spirit which we received at baptism.
No, I don't see a contradiction. Faith doesn't save us either, but we can't be saved with out it. Only God can save a person and that's totally by His grace.
You are playing with words. You believe that a person has to be baptized in water before he is saved. Therefore you believe in baptismal regeneration.
A person is saved through faith.
Ephesians 2:8 'For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9] not as a result of works, that no one should boast.
A person is not saved though water baptism, he is saved through faith in Christ.
You've been shown that in Acts 10, Cornelius and household were saved before being baptized in water. Yet you don't want to believe it.
I'll tell you what I told the other poster. You've been given sufficient information to understand the truth of the matter. But you are unwilling to listen. Therefore, I am not going to spend anymore of my time on this with you. I have neither the desire or the patience. Attempting to nail Jello to a wall is a waste of time. If you have always believed that a person has to be baptized in water before he can be saved then you were never saved in the first place. You cannot add anything to faith alone in Christ alone. That is my final comment to you on the matter.
You are playing with words. You believe that a person has to be baptized in water before he is saved. Therefore you believe in baptismal regeneration.
Yes, I believe that a person has to be baptized in order to be saved. But I do not believe that regeneration is caused by being baptized. Therefore, I do not believe in baptismal regeneration. You can spin it anyway you want, but I'm telling you I do not now, nor have I ever believed or taught that anyone is regenerated by baptism.
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A person is saved through faith.
Amen. Absolutely.
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Ephesians 2:8 'For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9] not as a result of works, that no one should boast.
A person is not saved though water baptism, he is saved through faith in Christ.
Right again. People are saved by grace, through faith, at baptism, for good works.
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You've been shown that in Acts 10, Cornelius and household were saved before being baptized in water. Yet you don't want to believe it.
It's not that I don't want to believe it. It's that it doesn't harmonize with other Scripture to believe it.
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If you have always believed that a person has to be baptized in water before he can be saved then you were never saved in the first place. You cannot add anything to faith alone in Christ alone. That is my final comment to you on the matter.
I have not always believed that a person has to be baptized before they can be saved. I used to be in the camp that believes we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. But once I began to study Scripture for myself without depending on the teaching of men, I discovered that that position could not logically be supported by Scripture.
Sorry that you won't be commenting again. I really enjoyed your comments and I'll miss them.
You are playing with words. You believe that a person has to be baptized in water before he is saved. Therefore you believe in baptismal regeneration.
A person is saved through faith.
Ephesians 2:8 'For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9] not as a result of works, that no one should boast.
A person is not saved though water baptism, he is saved through faith in Christ.
You've been shown that in Acts 10, Cornelius and household were saved before being baptized in water. Yet you don't want to believe it.
I'll tell you what I told the other poster. You've been given sufficient information to understand the truth of the matter. But you are unwilling to listen. Therefore, I am not going to spend anymore of my time on this with you. I have neither the desire or the patience. Attempting to nail Jello to a wall is a waste of time. If you have always believed that a person has to be baptized in water before he can be saved then you were never saved in the first place. You cannot add anything to faith alone in Christ alone. That is my final comment to you on the matter.
Prove this lie you continuously perpertrate. There is not a single scripture that says baptism is a work of human merit. I personally don't care if you ever answer any of my posts, but you are making a claim that is false and you owe it to all of your readers to give an answer to this question. BOOK, CHAPTER, VERSE PLEASE!
Prove this lie you continuously perpertrate. There is not a single scripture that says baptism is a work of human merit. I personally don't care if you ever answer any of my posts, but you are making a claim that is false and you owe it to all of your readers to give an answer to this question. BOOK, CHAPTER, VERSE PLEASE!
Katie
Simply refer back to post #156 and understand what John 6:28-29 says.
The phrase "baptismal regeneration" is not found in the Bible. The word "regeneration" is synonomous with "rebirth." The NIV uses regeneration, the ESV uses rebirth.
I believe the phrase "baptismal regeneration," which is tossed around by our "faith only" friends, is merely a bit of inflammatory rhetoric designed to intimidate those who affirm that baptism is a part of the regeneration process.
Roman catholics believe baptism is a “sacrament” which has a sort of mysterious, innate power to remove sin, independent of personal faith and submission to God’s plan of redemption.
There is nothing in Scriptures which suggest that there is something magical in the waters of baptism that can effect forgiveness of sin.
I absolutely believe in regeneration/rebirth when we are baptized (immersed in water). Unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of heaven. (John 3:5)
Baptism, immersion in water, must be accompanied by both faith (Mark 16:16) and repentance (Acts 2:38). Withou those prerequisites, it has no validity whatsoever.
Baptism is an act of obedience. It is when one expresses his trust in the power of Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection to forgive sins. Paul makes it quite clear that when one is buried with Christ through baptism, it is into the Lord’s death. And, just as the Son of God was raised from the dead to the glory of Father, even so, when one is raised from the burial of baptism, he passes into a “newness of life” (Rom. 6:4). The power to save is in Jesus’ death and resurrection, not in the water.
Penitent believers access that power when they humbly submit to the Lord’s requirement to replicate the Savior’s burial and resurrection in the action of baptism (Col. 2:12-13).
Salvation is preceded by both faith and baptism, according to the precise language of Mark 16:16. The Greek text literally suggests: “He who has believed, and who has been immersed, shall be saved.” In a parallel passage, baptism is viewed as the culminating act by which one is acknowledged as a disciple (Mt. 28:19 ).
Jesus informed Nicodemas that one does not enter the kingdom of God except by the new birth process (Jn. 3:5), which involves “water,” i.e., baptism. Not many would deny that the new birth and “regeneration” are equivalents. Hence, there is a solid connection between regeneration and the birth that involves water.
For fifteen centuries it was conceded that the “water” of this passage is an allusion to baptism. John Calvin introduced the novel view that the “water” must be spiritualized, and he has been followed by numerous advocates of the doctrine of salvation by “faith alone.”
The historian Philip Schaff observed that Calvin’s view was an excessive reaction to the dogma of Catholicism, and that it is impossible to disassociate the “water” in this verse from the rite of baptism (Lange, p. 127).
When asked: “What shall we do?” by sincere folks who had been convicted of their sin, Peter informed them that they must repent and be baptized “for the forgiveness of your sins” (Acts 2:38).
Paul of Tarsus, who had been praying for days — and still was lost, was instructed to: “Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name” (Acts 22:16). This was not “baptismal regeneration” in a mystical sense; rather, it was merely submission to an inspired ordinance.
It is by baptism that one is said to enter “into Christ” (Rom. 6:4; Gal. 3:27), wherein salvation is located (2 Timothy 2:10).
Paul describes baptism as a “washing of water,” or a “washing of regeneration,” in connection with which the sinner is “cleansed” or “saved” (Eph. 5:26; Tit. 3:5).
Peter unequivocally affirms that baptism is involved in our salvation. Just as Noah and his family were transported from an environment of corruption into a realm of deliverance, so, similarly, in baptism we are moved from the world of defilement into a redeemed relationship with the Lord (1 Pet. 3:21).
There is a relationship between water immersion and forgiveness, in the passages cited above.
There is also ample historical evidence for baptism (immersion in water) for forgiveness of sins and salvation.
Our "faith only" friends choose to ignore it.
3 At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.
3 For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another. 4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
It's still a matter of how one percieves what happens at baptism.
Is it us doing something for God or God doing something for us?
If one views coming to faith as a choice then baptism is really nothing more than a show.
However, if it is God doing something for us, then verses like these take on different meaning about baptism:
Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations,
[how] baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit
Ephesians 5:25-26
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy,
cleansing her [how] by the washing with water through the word
Acts 22:16
And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’
John 3:5
Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless [how] he is born of water and the Spirit.
Romans 6:3-5
Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
We were therefore buried with him throughbaptism into death in order that,
just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father,
we too may live a new life. If we have been united with him like this in his death,
we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection.
1 Peter 3:21
this water [the water of the flood at the time of Noah] symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—
not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you [how] by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
baptism is about washing the sins away Acts 22:16, Ephesians 5:25-26 .......
"not the removal of dirt from the body" or a dedication
__________WHAT THEN HAPPENS IN BAPTISM___________________
Titus 3:4-5
But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us,
not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit
baptism isn't something we do for God
It is God doing something for us.........saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit
It's still a matter of how one percieves what happens at baptism.
Is it us doing something for God or God doing something for us?
If one views coming to faith as a choice then baptism is really nothing more than a show.
However, if it is God doing something for us, then verses like these take on different meaning about baptism:
Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations,
[how] baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit
Ephesians 5:25-26
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy,
cleansing her [how] by the washing with water through the word
Acts 22:16
And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’
John 3:5
Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless [how] he is born of water and the Spirit.
Romans 6:3-5
Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
We were therefore buried with him throughbaptism into death in order that,
just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father,
we too may live a new life. If we have been united with him like this in his death,
we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection.
1 Peter 3:21
this water [the water of the flood at the time of Noah] symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—
not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you [how] by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
baptism is about washing the sins away Acts 22:16, Ephesians 5:25-26 .......
"not the removal of dirt from the body" or a dedication
__________WHAT THEN HAPPENS IN BAPTISM___________________
Titus 3:4-5
But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us,
not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit
baptism isn't something we do for God
It is God doing something for us.........saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit
That is precisely what I've been saying all along. Baptism is what God is doing for us, NEVER. what we are doing for Him. Thank you for your post.
Katie
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