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Old 04-22-2011, 11:54 AM
 
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Many talk of a free gift but ultimatly their explanation still leaves the thought that something still is required of man in order for it to happen.

There are a lot of way to try to explain what a free gift is. For the most part I believe that many Christians while saying the gift of salvation is free they like the fact that they can say that they chose to accept it.

One such analogy is showing that if I offer you a free gift then you must accept it in order for that free gift to be real and tangible.

While that is partly true it is missing a couple of factors.

1. when using an analogy, you need to use an object that cannot be lost or destroyed

2. Often what is left out is Gods nature of correcting what is wrong to the point that one day you will indeed understand the gift and know what it will do for you.

One such misunderstanding is that God offers this free gift and then waits around or hopes that you hear about the gift, want to learn about the gift and upon learning about it you accept it then upon accepting it you utilize it in your life.

First of all, John 6:44, proves that God is anything but absent in the process of bringing you to him.

Secondly, when God makes a promise as he has in 1 Timothy 2:4 then it absolutely will happen. Someone can rattle out all the theology, exegesis, terminology, word studies and commmentarys they like and nothing concerning that will change.

You can talk about reaching out and accepting, you can talk abouit free will, you can talk about obedience, love and anything else and nothing changes that.


One thing that will come up is the argument from a persons perspective that salvation must be earned. We have heard it a million times. "Well, if we are all saved anyway then might as well live however we please and go sin and get drunk, etc etc"

Such a position makes no difference, it is like this. If you believe from that perspective, then what you are saying is that being saved requires you to live a certain way, act a certain way, do certain things and that will save you.

However the problem is that, even if you believe that way, you do not live that way. If you fall and break your arm, well, why bother to go get it fixed, sure it hurts, but what does your hurting broken arm got to do with anything, your already saved, so if you get gangrene and die, your broken arm won't matter.


The above presentation is to illustrate that people have not been taught the difference between salvation and your spiritual walk. Being saved is a given, but the journey there is what will allow you to discover and find what that gift has to offer.
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Old 04-22-2011, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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I like to call it saved to serve...
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Old 04-22-2011, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Southern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Many talk of a free gift but ultimatly their explanation still leaves the thought that something still is required of man in order for it to happen.
The free gift is God's Divine Love, the substance or Essence of God, that we may receive from Him if it is our desire. What is required is simply prayer and faith. With His Love comes salvation and immortality. Blessings.

The Divine Love of God. The Father is all Goodness, Love, Truth, Forgiveness and Kindness. (http://tinyurl.com/3ln5m7p - broken link)
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Old 04-22-2011, 01:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by SoCalAngel2009 View Post
The free gift is God's Divine Love, the substance or Essence of God, that we may receive from Him if it is our desire. What is required is simply prayer and faith. With His Love comes salvation and immortality. Blessings.

The Divine Love of God. The Father is all Goodness, Love, Truth, Forgiveness and Kindness. (http://tinyurl.com/3ln5m7p - broken link)


From my own walk it goes deeper than that, I have received things from God even when I did not desire them at all, even while I spit in his face.
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Old 04-22-2011, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Italy
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Phase, I can tell you in all sincerity, God changed my life before I had a hunger for Him. It was HE who did the work, and is still working today. In me. In you. In all of us.

If God changed my life, and I wasn't even crying out to Him to do anything, then I know that His arm is not too short that it cannot save others as well. It's just so easy for Him, I know it. Nothing is impossible for Him, and I know that our puny "free will" is nothing for Him to overcome.

People say things like "God doesn't force Himself on you!" but then they warn you that God will throw you in hell if you don't get in line! Sounds like "forcing" to me!!

But God's way of forcing isn't like man's way of forcing.
God's wrath is not like man's wrath. Wrath is work of the flesh. Paul tells us to shun it, avoid it like the plague.

God's judgements are for our good, not for harm. We are in desperate need of God's judgements, because that is how we learn about Him and how to become like Him.

Getting back to the OP, there are gifts that a man must "accept," such as a box with a watch or a necklace inside it. Yes, in that sense, a man can "reject" the gift by not opening it.

But there is another type of gift, such as paying someone's credit card bill, or mowing someone's lawn for them. Whether they accept it or not, it's done.
And I think that the gift of salvation is this type of gift. It's done, and whether we like it or not, we are His.


Blessings!
brian
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Old 04-22-2011, 03:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Phase, I can tell you in all sincerity, God changed my life before I had a hunger for Him. It was HE who did the work, and is still working today. In me. In you. In all of us.

If God changed my life, and I wasn't even crying out to Him to do anything, then I know that His arm is not too short that it cannot save others as well. It's just so easy for Him, I know it. Nothing is impossible for Him, and I know that our puny "free will" is nothing for Him to overcome.

People say things like "God doesn't force Himself on you!" but then they warn you that God will throw you in hell if you don't get in line! Sounds like "forcing" to me!!

But God's way of forcing isn't like man's way of forcing.
God's wrath is not like man's wrath. Wrath is work of the flesh. Paul tells us to shun it, avoid it like the plague.

God's judgements are for our good, not for harm. We are in desperate need of God's judgements, because that is how we learn about Him and how to become like Him.

Getting back to the OP, there are gifts that a man must "accept," such as a box with a watch or a necklace inside it. Yes, in that sense, a man can "reject" the gift by not opening it.

But there is another type of gift, such as paying someone's credit card bill, or mowing someone's lawn for them. Whether they accept it or not, it's done.
And I think that the gift of salvation is this type of gift. It's done, and whether we like it or not, we are His.


Blessings!
brian

The last part of what you said was what I was trying to illustrate, there are people who say that there is no such thing as a gift that does not require participation by the recipient and that simply is not true at all.

God has given me plenty of gifts that required no action of mine at all.

I believe salvation is such a gift and in time as the scriptures show when it says that Jesus gave himself a ransom to be testified in due time means that everyone is a recipient and everyone has their own path to comes to terms with the vast wonder that it is. Most people reject such a greatness because deep inside they do not feel they deserve it or they feel cheated because they have worked so hard trying to earn it, when their efforts are in vain.
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Old 04-22-2011, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Texas
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Even a free gift has to be accepted by the recipient, does it not?

If you give your child a gift on Christmas morning and he rejects it, is it still a gift?
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Old 04-22-2011, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Tucson, Arizona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
Even a free gift has to be accepted by the recipient, does it not?

If you give your child a gift on Christmas morning and he rejects it, is it still a gift?
"Salvation" or being created in God's image, becoming His 'son', is not a gift you can wrap and offer to a person and give him the option to accept or reject it.

If I buy $1,000,000. worth of stocks or bonds for my 2 year child, I am not going to offer it to him in a box. I am going to tutor him during his childhood, teach him the value of the gift and that along with the gift comes great responsibility. It is in his name, it's his irrevocably. I have arranged that no matter what, when he has reached the point that s/he can understand it's worth I will give it to him. (this is an analogy, I do not have the resources to do this) Because of my mortality and limited power, I cannot ensure that there will ever be a time in my child's life when He will use it wisely. but...

God has unlimited power and patience and 'time." He can overcome any type of mental deficiency in an individual's mind that could interfere with his perception of what His gift on a cross accomplished and the love that motivated it. If my child is born with a heart defect, I would do anything in my power to obtain surgery to correct it without asking him or her if he wanted it or not when there is no way he has the vocabulary or knowledge to even understand that there is a problem and a solution. And no matter how he or she pleased me during his lifetime, I would never dream of going back in and unrepairing the damage. Tho it is still a weak analogy, this is the type of gift God has given us, and whether the heart or intellect of a person can accept it at 3 or 10 or 50 or not until the Age of the Ages, all His children will realize the gift they have been given and marvel at the marvelous Spirit which bestowed it upon him.

God is great and greatly to be praised. His mercy endures forever and His grace far outshines any sin that we can engage in. Will we learn the consequences of our sin upon others and ourselves, for sure, and it will not be pleasant, but we WILL learn righteousness and it will be written upon our hearts.
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Old 04-22-2011, 06:53 PM
 
Location: Southern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
From my own walk it goes deeper than that, I have received things from God even when I did not desire them at all, even while I spit in his face.
Well, that shows how much He loves you. But why settle for just that when you have the opportunity to become Divine and possess the same qualities that He has?
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Old 04-23-2011, 11:40 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalAngel2009 View Post
Well, that shows how much He loves you. But why settle for just that when you have the opportunity to become Divine and possess the same qualities that He has?

It is all a process, there is no opportunity, it is an absolute promise from God that it will happen. But each persons journey there will be different.
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