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Yes, and this world is the elect world, that world which God does not lay any charges against Rom 8:
33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect?It is God that justifieth.
34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
When Charges are not imputed there is Justification before God, even if when there is unbelief. Unbelief cannot undo what Christ done by His blood or death.
So the world in 2Cor 5 19 is a Justified world, which cannot be said about this world 1 Cor 11:32
32But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we [The called and chosen] should not be condemned with the world.
My friend, it is your doctrines that bring the charge against the elect. The all men, the ungodly, and against whom it is said, Him who justifies the ungodly.
God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. This is scriptural. Regardless of what your doctrine teaches.
It is YOUR doctrines, filled with malice that rephrases what scripture presents. It is YOUR doctrines that are bringing the charge against what God has accomplished in Christ.
Why is it that the term "all" (used in it's widest application) cannot be included within the term "elect"? Do you know for a fact that "all" are not "elect"? Or that perhaps the term "elect" does not necessarily disqualify "the all".
Do you know for a fact that a limited number has been placed on the term elect? If so, how?
Scripture proclaims we are to believe in Him who justifies the ungodly. Not the elect ungodly, as you would have it, but rather the UNGODLY, without the modifier you place upon it. Are you doing this?
Every scripture that proclaims the Good News, you've bastardized by having to re-qualify it to fit your particular doctrines of a limited atonement. I call them bastardized because they are. They are the doctrines of the Pharisees. They proclaim:
"God loves us, but not them". "God has mercy for us, but not all". "Christ came for us, but not them". "We are elect, not them".
Did you actually read what Paul proclaimed?:
1Co 15:1 MOREOVER, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Paul uses the word "our" sins. That is: Paul, who proclaimed the Gospel, and his audience, all the world, and to every creature, to whom it was being proclaimed. The fact of the matter is, the Gospel is true, whether it is believed or not. Paul, as Saul rejected the Gospel for many years, prior to his being born of the Spirit. As also do many today. However, this unbelief does not nullify the Good News, or prevent the Spirit from working His grace when He desires so, and upon those whom today do not believe. Being born of the Spirit is when the Spirit desires, not when we desire or when we think it should take place. Do you know when and how the Spirit brings to life? Do you have a schedule and time clock on when and how the Spirit works? Does the Spirit of grace check in with your doctrines of limited atonement before going to work, as it were?
Do not shorten the arm of the Lord, my friend. Do not limit the Spirit's grace and work to suit your doctrines.
The only thing your doctrines have demonstrated here today is that they have no faith in God, or the power of Christ to seek and to save the lost, or the Spirit to bring the dead to life.
Last edited by AlabamaStorm; 05-13-2011 at 02:47 PM..
Reason: typo
Gospel n. 1. The teachings of Jesus and the Apostles. 2. One of the first four books of the New Testament, describing the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. 5. Something accepted as unquestionably true.
Jesus and the Apostles taught:
1. We must be born again - John 3:7 Don't be surprised when I tell you that all of you must be born from above.
2. We must be filled with the Holy Spirit - 1 Corinthians 6:19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;
2. We must be baptised in the Holy Spirit - Matthew 3:11 "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire."
3. We must let Jesus into our heart - Matthew 18:3 And Jesus said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven
...and...
1 Corinthians 2:9 but just as it is written, "THINGS WHICH EYE HAS NOT SEEN AND EAR HAS NOT HEARD, AND which HAVE NOT ENTERED THE HEART OF MAN, ALL THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM."
4. We must have a personal relationship with Christ - 1 John 1:3 This is the life we have seen and heard. We are reporting about it to you also so that you, too, can have a relationship with us. Our relationship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.
...and...
1 John 2:24 See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.
...and...
1 Corinthians 1:9 God, who has called you into fellowship with his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, is faithful.
5. We must repent - Mark 6:12 So the disciples went out, telling everyone they met to repent of their sins and turn to God.
...and...
(and you'll love this one Alabama...for the "GOOD NEWS" is to REPENT!!!...Jesus said so!...read it and weap my friend......sincerely, for you are so deceived and so wrong)...
Mark 1:5 "The time has come," Jesus said. "The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!"
...and the rest of your strawman list I will not address...as I have proven the error of your beliefs already.
They certainly are...thus saith the Lord God Almighty...it is written.
Amen.
But if you do not keep the Sabbath holy unto God, you transgress the law of God, which is sin...and God has not called any willfull sinner to proclaim anything to the world. Therefore, because you transgress the law of God, and you walk in sin, by choice, knowing from the word of God you should, but reject it anyway, you are a worker of iniquity...ungodly...not a child of God, but a child of the devil...therefore you have no business proclaiming anything to anyone...false teachers who teach false gospels are so going to be so sorry...so very, very sorry.
If! you receive Jesus into your heart and repent of your sins, and be baptised in the Holy Ghost and obey the commandments of God...yes...then you are justified...and not until. His work is done, He will not be obedient for you...that is up to you to decide to be...or not....
Jesus did everything that needed to be done to enable us...to give us the opportunity to have a right relationship with God the Father...IF we will by repenting of our sins...receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost...submitting unto Him our will and living in His will instead, which is to sin not and obey His commandments.
...those who live in His will are not ungodly...those who obey His commandments do not commit sin...those who submit their wills to God and live a righteous life, are His own...they are forgiven and justified.
God Bless you,
Verna.
I won't give up on you Verna. I want you to know that. BTW: Is there anyway you can change your font styles? My eyes are feeling strained. I'm getting old I guess, or perhaps I just need a new monitor...
In all seriousness though...the dictionary is not what defines the Gospel, Verna, or where we'll find it's truth's proclaimed. The Gospel was given to Paul by revelation from Christ. Paul neither learned it from man, or consulted with man, regarding it. It is simply Christ crucified and risen for our sins and for our justification.
Your presentation of the Gospel is really not the Gospel that Paul proclaimed, Verna. The Gospel is all about what Christ did for us, not about what we do, or did, for Him.
Here is the Gospel, Verna. Ask yourself, do you see any of the things you've mentioned about what man "must do" presented, in what Paul calls, the Gospel?:
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
And, Paul was determined that they should know this truth:
1Co 2:1 AND I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
1Co 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
Verna, with all due respect...Perhaps you should start a thread on sanctification, and the Christians walk with Christ, and how God works within us? This is perhaps where your strengths are found and perhaps where God has called you to lead. I believe you would truly glorify Christ in that capacity.
I am witnessing about Christ and His Gospel, its not about me but Christ and what He has done.
Well, why didn't you say so...
Here are some of the scriptures proclaiming what Christ has done:
Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
And, Paul presents it in summary here:
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Surprisingly, it's all about justifying the ungodly! And saving the ungodly from wrath!
And, no modifiers needed to make it say something it doesn't. Who would have guessed...
Here are some of the scriptures proclaiming what Christ has done:
Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Yes all apply to His elect. None of those scriptures apply to that world which shall be condemned 1 Cor 11:
32But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
Alabama, you and Mystic have attacked savedbysoveriegngrace...and for what? Because he/she has provided you with Scripture that simply contradicts what you want to believe (in error) is the true Gospel of Jesus Christ...?
savedbysoveriegngrace responded with Romans, which is witten by the Apostle Paul, which is, might I remind the both of you, IS part of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. savedbysoveriegngrace didn't write it, Paul did...God's precious Apostle.
Paul is stating in Romans 8:33 what I have been trying to get through to you all for ages it seems like, but you won't hear it. Just because it has the term "elect" in it, causes you two to rise up in attack mode toward someone who is simply telling you the truth...as Paul, under the anointing, wrote to us to teach us!
It is the truth, the "world" that Paul is speaking of in Rom. 8:33 are those who do, in fact, live in the will of our Father, and not their own. They are those, who, in fact, are justified by the blood of Jesus Christ, why? because they are obedient to God and His commandments...they are not an ungodly, willful bunch of wicked sinners, who walk around here in this life chin deep in their sins, thinking they were justified 2000 years ago...that Christ has already done it all for them...they can just continue on in their iniquities because Christ took care of all their sins...past, present and future!...that is a lie from the pit of hell!!! The false doctrine you teach is FALSE!..it goes against everything God's word teaches us..and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out!..it takes a simple, unlearned child of the Living God, in the Spirit of Christ, to know what the Word of God is speaking!
Yes!..this is the truth!...
...33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect?It is God that justifieth.
34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
...well Alabama...there ^^^ is your justification...and to whom it is that is justified by the blood of Christ...and as you can easily read, it isn't someone who has rejected Jesus, it is those...THE ELECT!...(which could be you as well if only you would STOP trying to justify your life of sin! and obey His commandments!) who have reached out and received His Gift of Reconciliation! by living the life that God requires His people to live!
You are not going to get away with it...teaching people your false interpretations of God's holy Word. Everyone is not justified! Yes, Jesus' blood was shed for all mankind, it's there for the asking..it's there for the receiving...but it MUST! be received!...and whomsoever DOES! receive this precious Gift, will be changed!...will be regenerated!... will keep the commandments of God!...will not continue in their lustful sins! They will NOT transgress the law of God, which is the Ten Commandments...and guess what?..they are called the elect by God!...and He gave Paul the message to give to us!...and it is what it is...and savedbysovereigngrace didn't just come up with it to tick you off, or to place himself above you...but your reaction is what condemns you...but that is a good thing according to God...I pray let your hearts be condemned...let the Words pierce through your hearts like a double-edged sword...yes...let it so do! You should feel condemned, because you teach a false gospel, and you shoudn't! It is wrong! WRONG! W-R-O-N-G!!!
Alabama, you said to savedbysovereigngrace:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alabama
Did you actually read what Paul proclaimed?:
1Co 15:1 MOREOVER, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
...please take note to whom Paul is speaking when he mentions "us"...it is the "brethren"...the BROTHERHOOD OF BELIEVERS...those who keep the commandments of God and do not transgress them...those who DO! the will of the Father...those are my brothers and my sisters! If you transgress the law of God (The Ten Commandments) YOU ARE NOT a son of God...YOU ARE NOT born of God...YOU ARE NOT a joint heir with Jesus, the First Born of the "BRETHREN!" get that into your head! Paul preached the TRUE! Gospel to the BRETHREN, and they are the BRETHREN because why?...because they RECEIVED it and THEY STAND IN IT! He is NOT speaking to all the wicked, willfull sinners who transgress the law of God!..THEY ARE NOT JUSTIFIED because they did not receive the TRUTH!
...and you continue on in your terrible response to savedbysovereigngrace...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alabama
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Paul uses the word "our" sins. That is: Paul, who proclaimed the Gospel, and his audience to whom it was proclaimed.
..."our" is the BRETHREN, and not the wicked, willfull sinner who does not keep the commandments of God...instead they live their lives in their wickedness!
...and you continue...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alabama
The fact of the matter is, the Gospel is true, whether it is believed or not.
The fact of the matter is, the TRUE Gospel IS! true, not your twisted version of it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alabama
Paul, as Saul rejected the Gospel for many years, prior to his being born of the Spirit. As also do many today. However, this unbelief does not nullify the Good News, or prevent the Spirit from working His grace when He desires so, and upon those whom today do not believe. Being born of the Spirit is when the Spirit desires, not when we desire or when we think it should take place. Do you know when and how the Spirit brings to life? Do you have a schedule and time clock on when and how the Spirit works? Does the Spirit of grace check in with your doctrines of limited atonement before going to work, as it were?
strawman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alabama
Do not shorten the arm of the Lord, my friend. Do not limit the Spirit's grace and work to suit your doctrines.
The only thing your doctrines have demonstrated here today is that they have no faith in God, or the power of Christ to seek and to save the lost, or the Spirit to bring the dead to life.
...Alabama...l O O k in the mirror... you yourself have poured God in a mold of what you want Him to be...instead of accepting Him for Who He IS!
May God bless you in your understanding of Him and what He requires of you to be His,
Verna.
In case you did not know it, I will tell you, all the elect are ungodly by nature, so God does Justify the Ungodly..
But not all without exception. But the world in 2 Cor 5:19 does not have any charges laid against it. So that world is not condemned.
Thats a different story regarding the world that is condemned 1 Cor 11:
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
Now if you believe these are the same worlds, I dont see how you understand the Gospel and what Christ has done.
The world (as it pertains to the flesh) has already been judged and condemned (Joh 14:17 and Joh 3:18). It always has been and always will be. Do you think somehow, you or I, or anyone else for that matter, including the elect, escaped that judgment and condemnation?
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
The same world (all men) that was condemned in Adam is also the same world that is justified by Christ. Do you think somehow that this condemnation by Adam was only upon the elect world, and not the ungodly world also?
Yes, the entire world, including you and I, and all the elect too, were condemned in Adam, according to the flesh, and remain as such according to the flesh. The flesh will never see life. Eternal condemnation, if you will, is upon it.
And, in like manner, all who were condemned in Adam, are also justified, according to the spirit, by Christ.
We, who believe the good news, are to proclaim these glad tidings to all the world. We are to proclaim to the world that their sins are forgiven and that they are justified by Christ. We are to proclaim the Gospel of the Spirit to the spirit, not to the flesh.
Why do you hesitate to proclaim the good things, the Good News of the Gospel, to all the world?
Last edited by AlabamaStorm; 05-13-2011 at 04:44 PM..
Paul is stating in Romans 8:33 what I have been trying to get through to you all for ages it seems like, but you won't hear it. Just because it has the term "elect" in it, causes you two to rise up in attack mode toward someone who is simply telling you the truth...as Paul, under the anointing, wrote to us to teach us!
No attack against the individual was made Verna. You know that. Their doctrines, yes.
Verna, scripture proclaims all are elect in terms of "justification to life". Not some, but all. Look here:
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
All men Verna, not some, but all.
And, look again here:
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Many miss that verse. All are justified and all will be glorified. Not some, but rather all.
The truth of the matter Verna, is that you've never really believed these scriptures, nor has the other poster.
PS: Can you change your font size? You're killin' me over here...lol
Last edited by AlabamaStorm; 05-13-2011 at 05:21 PM..
Reason: Clarification
...please take note to whom Paul is speaking when he mentions "us"...it is the "brethren"...the BROTHERHOOD OF BELIEVERS...those who keep the commandments of God and do not transgress them...those who DO! the will of the Father...those are my brothers and my sisters! If you transgress the law of God (The Ten Commandments) YOU ARE NOT a son of God...YOU ARE NOT born of God...YOU ARE NOT a joint heir with Jesus, the First Born of the "BRETHREN!" get that into your head! Paul preached the TRUE! Gospel to the BRETHREN, and they are the BRETHREN because why?...because they RECEIVED it and THEY STAND IN IT! He is NOT speaking to all the wicked, willfull sinners who transgress the law of God!..THEY ARE NOT JUSTIFIED because they did not receive the TRUTH!
Verna, Paul's audience was all the world, every creature. Those to whom Christ commanded the Gospel to be preached.
And what is it that Paul said:
"Our" sins...that's right...."our" sins. Sing it Verna...our sins.
Paul's sins, as well as "all the world", every "creatures" sins. That was Paul's audience when proclaiming the Gospel. It was not only to the brethren to whom THE LETTER was addressed, regarding to whom Paul tells them he preached to.
Verna, I have to give you very low marks here, you're biblical comprehension is lacking, com'on Verna, I know you can do better than this...
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...sincerely, for you are so deceived and so wrong)...
you yourself have poured God in a mold of what you want Him to be...instead of accepting Him for Who He IS!
