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Old 05-28-2011, 01:39 PM
 
Location: NJ and Florida
9,751 posts, read 3,007,815 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
Liberty: The freedom to chose for ourselves, not to have others chose for us.

Pursuit of happiness: And, for some, happiness involves living with another of the same sex. Do they not have the Constitutional right to do so?
Nambla is kept down by social laws of the land. So not everything can be pursued by their constitutional right. Not everyone gets to pursue what they think is their right to happiness.

 
Old 05-28-2011, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Katonah, NY
16,314 posts, read 8,684,626 times
Reputation: 16257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taratova View Post
Nambla is kept down by social laws of the land. So not everything can be pursued by their constitutional right. Not everyone gets to pursue what they think is their right to happiness.
Apples and oranges. Sex and relationships between two CONSENTING ADULTS is not comparable to sex with MINORS. I don't understand why people can't understand this. It's a very simple concept.
 
Old 05-28-2011, 03:43 PM
 
3,623 posts, read 2,786,488 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdrop93 View Post
Apples and oranges. Sex and relationships between two CONSENTING ADULTS is not comparable to sex with MINORS. I don't understand why people can't understand this. It's a very simple concept.
the difficulty here is since this group promotes homosexual pedophiles it gets grouped in with all homosexuality---why does not the gay rights movement actually come out and deny and distance themselves from this group
 
Old 05-28-2011, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Katonah, NY
16,314 posts, read 8,684,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auntieannie68 View Post
the difficulty here is since this group promotes homosexual pedophiles it gets grouped in with all homosexuality---why does not the gay rights movement actually come out and deny and distance themselves from this group
Why should they have to? The only people that group it in with homosexuality are people that don't understand the difference between homosexuals and pedaphiles - which is so basic that everyone should be able to understand. Do all white people have to speak out agains the KKK so that people don't associate the KKK with all white people? Do all Germans have to proclaim that they are not Nazis?
 
Old 05-28-2011, 04:52 PM
 
12,801 posts, read 6,799,742 times
Reputation: 2291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarheelhombre View Post
"The message of moralism is law and bondage and condemnation. When it is personal, it is a message of, "I must perform the works of the law to be accepted." But it is often directed at others: "You are a sinner! You must not do that, you must not think that, you must not be that. I don't want you around because of your sin. You ought to have your rights and privileges curtailed or removed, perhaps even your life, because of your sin. Unless you change, you are going to hell." This is not the Gospel, which means "Good News." It is bad news. It is the very antithesis of the message Christians are supposed to be bringing to this dark world.

This is not to say that Christians live immorally. The Christian wants to do right and please God out of thankfulness because God has graciously saved him from his wretched state of sin. For the Christian, grace, trust in Jesus, and forgiveness come first; thankful (but imperfect because of human weakness) submission follows. The Christian, remembering his own natural state, understands the frail and helpless state of other sinners. He knows that "All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). He pities sinners, and so he wants to tell them the Good News of forgiveness through Jesus Christ.

The moralist, on the other hand, either starts out putting obedience first, or, in many cases, may be a Christian who loses sight of grace and replaces it with morality. He may even believe that he is initially saved by believing the Gospel, but that he must then work at the law to stay saved or to grow as a Christian. But this is still legalism, as our entire salvation and our growth as Christians is entirely by grace. All moralists, whether they are Christians who slip into it or people who start out as mere moralists, have trouble pitying sinners. Instead, the moralist points a finger and condemns....Moralism is wrong because it is anti-Gospel, anti-grace, and legalist. "

---Pastor Peter Ditzel
The opposite of grace is not morality. The opposite of grace is legalism. Legalism is working to earn salvation or the approbation of God. Morality in itself is not legalism. Morality is for the unbeliever as well as the believer. However, unrestrained legalism results in moral degeneracy. In contrast, unrestrained Lasciviousness results in immoral degeneracy.

I failed to make a distinction between moral and immoral degeneracy. I titled this thread as pertaining to moral degeneracy but should have referred to immoral degeneracy instead. Moral degeneracy involves self-righteousness and self-justification. Self-righteous people are sometimes mistaken as great Christians but are instead morally degenerate.

On the other hand, and this is what I am referring to in this thread, Immoral degeneracy involves things such as fornication, adultery, homosexuality, beastiality, violence, terrorism, murder, drug addiction, theft, etc... These things are destructive to a nation. A perfect example are the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. Apart from Lot and his family there were apparently no believers in those cities. God destroyed these cities because of their immorality which included homosexuality.

Christians are not to ignore the destructiveness of these things just because unbelievers are commiting these acts. And by the way, believers are fully capable of committing these things as well. Believers need to take a stand for the truth when the government begins passing laws which promote, sanction, encourage, or excuse immoral practices such as homosexuality.

This link explains the difference between moral and immoral degeneracy.
The Sin Nature

I have asked you twice now, and you seem unwilling to answer.

Do you disagree with the Bible that homosexuality is a sin?

Are you unwilling to take a stand for the truth for fear of offending the world?

Are you saying that Christians should shut up and not point out what is wrong and what is right?
 
Old 05-28-2011, 05:18 PM
 
Location: NJ and Florida
9,751 posts, read 3,007,815 times
Reputation: 2961
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdrop93 View Post
Apples and oranges. Sex and relationships between two CONSENTING ADULTS is not comparable to sex with MINORS. I don't understand why people can't understand this. It's a very simple concept.
No ,it is apples and apples. Many homosexuals have lovers that are very young 13 and up. Men with boys . I know for a fact. In NYC many young ones are taken in by wealthy older homosexuals . I have spoken to the FBI and other higher sources and others in government and they look the other way.

It is the larger cities where much sin goes on without any reproof from society or any governing entitiy.
 
Old 05-28-2011, 05:29 PM
 
16,310 posts, read 14,556,347 times
Reputation: 7970
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post

  1. Do you disagree with the Bible that homosexuality is a sin?
  2. Are you unwilling to take a stand for the truth for fear of offending the world?
  3. Are you saying that Christians should shut up and not point out what is wrong and what is right?
  1. Yes, it is not the word of any god, not a sin but the words of men, mere mortal men with prejudices, phobias, agendas, the desire for power. Just like being left handed, it is natural for a number of people, while others are right handed.
  2. The truth is not found in the bible (see #1)
  3. Yes, because their hatred, fears and phobias they label right/wrong are based on the prejudices, phobias, and agendas of men that lived in a time when knowledge was very limited, and an exercise in deliberate ignorance today now that mankind has a much greater collective knowledge.
 
Old 05-28-2011, 05:37 PM
 
Location: NJ and Florida
9,751 posts, read 3,007,815 times
Reputation: 2961
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
  1. Yes, it is not the word of any god, not a sin but the words of men, mere mortal men with prejudices, phobias, agendas, the desire for power. Just like being left handed, it is natural for a number of people, while others are right handed.
  2. The truth is not found in the bible (see #1)
  3. Yes, because their hatred, fears and phobias they label right/wrong are based on the prejudices, phobias, and agendas of men that lived in a time when knowledge was very limited, and an exercise in deliberate ignorance today now that mankind has a much greater collective knowledge.
Are you listening to the voice of satan? God exists and even satan know it. Satan isn't going to tell you but we are.
 
Old 05-28-2011, 05:51 PM
 
16,310 posts, read 14,556,347 times
Reputation: 7970
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taratova View Post
Are you listening to the voice of satan? God exists and even satan know it. Satan isn't going to tell you but we are.
Nope, satan is only an invention of the men that wrote the bible to instill fear in the gullible to control them. Fear is a very powerful emotion that is hard dismiss, thus the choice of religion as a tool to control the masses.

There are fears that serve a purpose, to keep us safe, help us make decisions to prevent injury or death, but fear based superstitions is baseless and always destructive the individual and often society.
 
Old 05-28-2011, 05:53 PM
 
12,801 posts, read 6,799,742 times
Reputation: 2291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarheelhombre View Post
"There are people who think that if America becomes moral, God will bless America. There are people who think if America becomes moral and religious, then God will doubly bless America. So, letís put God back in the public discourse, letís put prayer back in the schools, letís put the Ten Commandments up on the wall in public places, in courtrooms. Letís stop abortion. Letís stop rampant homosexuality. Letís stop pornography, etc. And if we can just bring about some kind of morality, and better yet, some kind of commitment to God, then we will be blessed.
Well let me make a very clear point at the outset here. Morality and religion will not invite or secure the blessing of God. They never have and they never will. A more moral America, a more moral and religious America does not advance in divine favor one inch. A more moral and a more religious America will not escape divine judgment any more than Pharisaic Judaism in Jesusí time escaped the devastating judgment of God in 70 A.D. when hundreds of thousands of Jews were slaughtered by godless Romans. And Jesus warned about that on several occasions.
Thereís only one thing God blesses, just one and that is He blesses saving faith in and love for His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. Thatís the only thing He blesses. Anybody who does not believe in and love the Lord Jesus Christ is among the cursed, right? As Christians, of course we are for morality. Weíre not for immorality. And we can do some topical, some superficial good, we can through political means because we live in a republic and a democracy, we can mitigate public indecency in some ways. We can mitigate public scandal, can use our democratic privileges. But that does not advance us in divine favor either individually or collectively. In fact, in 1 Corinthians 16:22 it is said, unmistakably, ďIf any man doesnít love the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be anathema,Ē cursed, judged, damned, condemned. Thereís only one thing God will bless and thatís faith in and love for His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Well, that sort of sets the picture for you."
--Pastor John McArthur
McArthur is wrong. God does indeed bless a nation with stability and prosperity when a maximum number of people within it adhere to the laws of divine establishment. Nations that adhere to the laws of divine establishment and observe the divine institutions of freedom-volition, marriage, family, and nationalism function in an orderly fashion and allow the individual to pursue his dreams and goals. The nation functioning under these establishment principles is blessed with regard to that fact.

Divine institution #2 is marriage. God designed marriage to be between a man and a woman (Gen 2:23-25). This provides the basic framework for society. When marriage is perverted by homosexual unions, whether by believers or unbelievers, this weakens a nation.


Often, even those individuals and nations who are evil prosper for a time (Job 21:7; Psalm 37; Psalm 73:12). But this is a test for the believer who sees what seems to him to be unfair. He must exercise his spiritual resources in dealing with such things.

1 Corinthians 16:22 is most likely a warning aimed at false teachers whom Paul believed to be present in the congregation (2 Cor 11:3-4).
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