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Arsenokotai has never in 1900 years meant homosexuals. Stop making stuff up just because your inaccurate English bible tells you it's so. Conservatives publishers made that up to increase Bible sales! Heck, the word itself disproves the theory it means "homosexuals". Arseno means man. Homosexuals includes men and women. Arseno does not talk about women at all. Obvious error!
It is a normal variation. Hence why it's prevelant in over 450 animal species. Do penguins have a demonic spirit that turned them gay? How about giraffes?
Thanks for the response. Very well, I understand your point regarding the interpretation, which also leads me to believe that you would prefer to establish a basis for homosexuality through research studies, considering your safari study. I'm game.
You've mentioned homosexuality in animals. This, I believe was mentioned before, in a separate thread, but I think that the answer I gave before suffices.
In the animal kingdom, of which I am convinced we are not a part, there are peculiar and unexplainable behaviors, some of which conincidentally parallel our own, however this does not make animals human, nor does it make humans animals.
Did these animal researchers, (assuming that the information you've posted is in connection with some study), simply observe homosexual and bisexual behavior 'at times', or is there some proof that some animals prefer the same sex exclusively? Not that this information alone even remotely stands as overwhelming evidence, but you do understand that depending on what these researchers observed, there are two separate conclusions that can be drawn.
Other peculiar behaviors have been found in animal species. A male lion when entering, and dominating, within a new pride, has been known to kill any cubs belonging to the previously dominant male. Certain female arachnids, as well as the female praying mantis, has been known to eat their mates following copulation. Whales will sometimes beach themselves for no known reason. Certain animal species have been known to eat there young. Why stop at homosexual behavior. The list goes on and on regarding strange animal behavior. Surely you're not suggesting that we should pattern our lives after the nature of the beasts.
Is this really the only basis you have for homosexual orientation, that animals do not discriminate when in heat ??? I Hope that none of these studies are from Kinsey. I'd love to take a crack at those studies, as well as reveal his questionable credentials, but for now I'll assume it's not.
How about a few human studies, once you've answered my questions regarding the woodland creatures. Looking forward to it.
Last edited by Pennsylvanian1; 05-26-2011 at 06:28 PM..
It doesn't really. But the Biblical verses which are often used incorrectly against gay people, ARE about idolatrous worshipping practices of pagan gods which often involved ritual sex acts.
Actually, it does. We tend to think that idolatry has to do with worshipping other gods (or religion since the idea of god(s) is often associated with religion) but that's not the case. It is idolatry because it is basically self-worship, whether it is homosexuality or heterosexuality.
Well I can't explain my argument any further because I have to leave (in Thailand atm). I will come back and finish my proposition.
So you just completely ignore the previous verses which put it all in the context of the idolatrous worshipping of pagan gods?
That's the danger with cherry-picking verses from the Bible out of context.
I didn't cherry-pick. For their idolatry, ‘God’ punish them by giving them a mind which wanted to practice ‘homosexuality’ and ‘lesbianism’. ‘God’ gave them a mind “void of judgment" between right and wrong (see Rom. 1:28). Therefore they received a recompense appropriate to the delusion which they had been given (v. 27).
You forget the most important "love" ........ love for the truth.
Romans 12:9
Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.
To love the Lord your God, is to love the truth. God calls homosexuality "immoral", "perversion", "unnatural" and one of outward expressions of idolatry.
If you can't see that the love is 'sincere' then you need to take the beam out of your eye!
Arsenokotai has never in 1900 years meant homosexuals. Stop making stuff up just because your inaccurate English bible tells you it's so. Conservatives publishers made that up to increase Bible sales! Heck, the word itself disproves the theory it means "homosexuals". Arseno means man. Homosexuals includes men and women. Arseno does not talk about women at all. Obvious error!
It is a normal variation. Hence why it's prevelant in over 450 animal species. Do penguins have a demonic spirit that turned them gay? How about giraffes?
Fiyero, the word “arsenokotai” is based on the Septuagint, which is the Old Testament Greek text. The word is based on the Septuagint of the Levitical proscriptions, which unambiguously forbid male-to-male intercourse (see Lev. 18:22 and 20:13).
The LXX Verses read:
Quote:
Leviticus 18:22 - meta arsenos ou koimethese koiten gunaikos
Leviticus 20:13 - hos an koimethe meta arsenoskoiten gunaikos
Paul in 1 Corinthians 6:9 is obviously alluding to Lev. 18:22 and 20:13, and he made it relevant to the Christian church.
It is a normal variation. Hence why it's prevelant in over 450 animal species. Do penguins have a demonic spirit that turned them gay? How about giraffes?
Did you know that is is common for animals to kill their young and in some cases they eat said young?
Actually, it does. We tend to think that idolatry has to do with worshipping other gods (or religion since the idea of god(s) is often associated with religion) but that's not the case. It is idolatry because it is basically self-worship, whether it is homosexuality or heterosexuality.
Well I can't explain my argument any further because I have to leave (in Thailand atm). I will come back and finish my proposition.
The idolatry spoken of in those verses is about other gods. Specifically the Caananite pantheon and the Greco-Roman gods.
Did you know that is is common for animals to kill their young and in some cases they eat said young?
Does that justify mothers killing their kids?
Are we talking about morality? No. People are claiming it's not natural. Homosexuality is very natural since it's common in nature. And unlike animals who eat their young, gays don't hurt anyone. Bad analogy.
Fiyero, the word “arsenokotai” is based on the Septuagint, which is the Old Testament Greek text. The word is based on the Septuagint of the Levitical proscriptions, which unambiguously forbid male-to-male intercourse (see Lev. 18:22 and 20:13).
The LXX Verses read:
Paul in 1 Corinthians 6:9 is obviously alluding to Lev. 18:22 and 20:13, and he made it relevant to the Christian church.
Whether that word was invented based on the Septuagint is debateable. Regardless, since Leviticus is condemning temple prostitution, I don't see the issue. Do you not understand the context of those 2 verses? They are prohibitions for the Israelites against engaging in pagan practices like the Caananites. The Caananites had sexual rituals to their fertility goddesses. The prohibition against shrine prostitution is confirmed in Deuteronomy 23.
Why didn't all of Paul's contemporaries like Philo claim Arsenokoites meant gay people? Why in 35 AD did Philo (a man who saw Paul use it first hand) say it referred to shrine prostitution and specifically link the practice to Moses' laws in Leviticus? As did other contemporaries. And if the word is so clear, why did for hundreds of years, the world universally translate that as masturbation because Arseno is singular?
Both Leviticus and Corinthians are referring to shrine prostitutes. I will take Philo's first hand knowledge of its use over your baseless opinion.
I didn't cherry-pick. For their idolatry, ‘God’ punish them by giving them a mind which wanted to practice ‘homosexuality’ and ‘lesbianism’. ‘God’ gave them a mind “void of judgment" between right and wrong (see Rom. 1:28). Therefore they received a recompense appropriate to the delusion which they had been given (v. 27).
Romans 1 doesn't say they that. Nice butchering of the text though. Those people exchanged their normal behavior. A gay person would have nothing to exchange to become gay. Meaning, those in Romans 1 were heterosexual. You also conveniently ignore the previous verse where Paul talks about them engaging in pagan worship rituals. Once again, we're talking about temple prostitution.
You people seriously know nothing about the Bible.
And yes, you do cherry pick. Unless you stone children or believe the Earth is geocentric and flat with a solid dome sitting above it.
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