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Unread 06-15-2011, 03:26 AM
 
Location: New Zealand
234 posts, read 70,869 times
Reputation: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
What an impotent God you believe in. We are constantly receiving guidance and influence from Christ's Holy Spirit within leading us to what God has "written in our hearts." You are right that we are free to ignore it . . . but it is constant and will eventually have its effect.
Malachi no doubt, because your "educated" and "enlightened" pseudo-spirituality allows you to exalt your own self above the inspired prophets of God, is nothing more than another example of one of your much maligned "ignorant and superstitious forbears'. He said that in the new world we will be trampling upon the dust of the wicked destroyed because of their unwillingness to repent. Doesn't sound to me much like the Holy Spirit won with them.

 
Unread 06-15-2011, 03:54 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,957 posts, read 1,096,137 times
Reputation: 212
Lightbulb "God's punishment is always for man's cure"

Concerning the duration of kolasis (literally - corrective punishment), Matt. 25:46 says (KJV),
"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal."

But the punishment could not be corrective if it was everlasting.

In the following fifteen translations aionios is translated literally.
Here is how I see it.
While the first fruits of election are enjoying life eonian, the non-elect will experience kolasis eonian (age-during corrective chastisement). When both life eonian and kolasis eonian come to an end then eternity continues with everyone saved from everything from which they need to be saved, including their stubborn will.

1. Scarlett's New Testament written in 1792 has "aeonian punishment" in place to "everlasting punishment."
"And these will go away into aeonian punishment: but the righteous into aeonian life."

2. The New Covenant by Dr. J.W. Hanson written in 1884 renders Matt. 25:46:
"And these shall go away into aeonian chastisement, and the just into aeonian life."

3. Young's Literal Translation first published in 1898 and reprinted many times since uses the following words:
"And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during."
Professor Young also compiled Young's Concordance, where one can check the translation of each Hebrew or Greek word as translated in the KJV.

4. The Twentieth Century New Testament first printed in the year 1900 has:
"And these last will go away 'into aeonian punishment,' but the righteous 'into aeonian life.'"

5. The Holy Bible in Modern English by Ferrar Fenton first published in 1903 gives the rendering:
"And these He will dismiss into a long correction, but the well-doers to an enduring life.

6. The New Testament in Modern Speech, by Dr. Weymouth, says:
"And these shall go away into punishment of the ages, but the righteous into life of the ages."
Dr. Weymouth most frequently adopts such terms as "life of the ages," "fire of the ages;" and in Rev. 14:6, "The good news of the ages." It is a matter to regret that the editors of the most recent edition of Dr. Weymouth's version have reverted to the KJV renderings for the passages containing the Greek word aion, eon, or age.

7. The Western New Testament published in 1926 renders Matt. 25:46 as follows:
"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into life eternal."
The translation, however, has a footnote on Matthew 21:19 on the word "forever" which is the same word for "eternal" which says: "Literally, for the age.”

8. Clementson's The New Testament (1938) shows,
"And these shall go away into eonian correction, but the righteous into eonian life."

9. Wilson's Emphatic Diaglott (1942 edition) translates the verse,
"And these shall go forth to the aionian cutting-off; but the righteous to aionian life."
It should be noted that the "cutting-off" refers to pruning a fruit tree to make it bear more fruit. The idea behind the word is not destructive but productive! Had Jesus wanted to emphasize a destructive end, He would have used the word "timoria."

10. The Concordant Version (1930):
"And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian."

11. The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed printed in 1958 says:
"And these shall go away into agelasting cutting-off and the just into agelasting life."

12. Joseph Bryant Rotherham, in his Emphasized Bible (1959), translates this verse,
"and these shall go away into age-abiding correction, but the righteous into age-abiding life."

13. The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible copyrighted in 1976 has "age-abiding correction" instead of "everlasting punishment."

14. Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010) has "And so, these folks will be going off into an eonian pruning (a lopping-off which lasts for an undetermined length of time; an age-lasting correction; a pruning which has its source and character in the Age), yet the fair and just folks who are in right relationship and are in accord with the Way pointed out [go off] into eonian life (life which has it source and character in the Age; life pertaining to the Age)”.

15. Even some King James Study Bibles will show the reader in the margins or appendixes that the King's translators were incorrect in their rendering of "eternal punishment.” The great Companion Bible by Dr. Bullinger is an example of that.

Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46
"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."

Also see what other Greek scholars say about it
An Analytical Study of Words
Chapter Eleven
 
Unread 06-15-2011, 05:49 AM
 
4,045 posts, read 1,703,290 times
Reputation: 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by brakelite View Post
Not permission, co-operation.
That would make us co-saviors of ourselves. Remember the Carnal man HATES God. So a Carnal man is not going to cooperate with God to be saved.

Quote:
Would like to know where in my post I gave the impression that I believed in eternal torment.

And you didn't answer which (a,b,c,d) of my analogy you prefer.
I'm glad you don't believe in Eternal Torment. I hope you don't believe in annihilationism also. Remember Moses would rather be blotted out of the book of life if God would not take away the sins of those that transgressed God.
 
Unread 06-15-2011, 08:57 AM
 
Location: NJ and Florida
7,007 posts, read 1,263,250 times
Reputation: 1888
Those who do not receive Jesus Christ as their savior are condemned . The word is plain.

Did not satan tell Adam and Eve they surely would NOT die if they ate of the tree of life? This is satan changing the meaning of what God had said.

God said , if you eat of this tree you will surely die. They died spiritually that day. They became mortal beings. Adam and Eve departed from what God had said to them. Be careful of the serpent who changes the word of God.

Those who believe are no longer in condemnation. Those who reject God's word or change their word are listening to another. Read your bible and know what God is saying.

John 3:18:
[LEFT]"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
In this verse you will find only two classes of people mentioned, Believer and unbeliever.
There is a vast difference between these two people. The difference is Heaven or Hell.

" . . . He that believeth not is condemned already. . ." This Bible statement reveals two important facts. It not only tells WHY a person is condemned, it also tells us WHEN a person is condemned.

You are not under the sentence of death because of WHAT YOU DO but because of what you DO NOT DO.
A person is not condemned because they drink, lie, steal, or commit outward acts of sin. These outward acts are only symptoms. The only reason a person is condemned is because they do not BELIEVE -- and for no other reason.
Then, too, we see that "he that believeth not" will not be condemned eventually. He is condemned NOW -- God has concluded all guilty. The sentence has been pronounced since Adam and Eve fell.
The believers- These, the Bible says, are NOT CONDEMNED.
A person becomes a believer simply by receiving the Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior.

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name."
(John 1:12)
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Unread 06-15-2011, 09:01 AM
 
5,843 posts, read 2,762,545 times
Reputation: 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taratova View Post
Those who believe are no longer in condemnation. Those who reject God's word or change their word are listening to another. Read your bible and know what God is saying.

John 3:18:
[LEFT]"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
In this verse you will find only two classes of people mentioned, Believer and unbeliever.
There is a vast difference between these two people. The difference is Heaven or Hell.

" . . . He that believeth not is condemned already. . ." This Bible statement reveals two important facts. It not only tells WHY a person is condemned, it also tells us WHEN a person is condemned.

You are not under the sentence of death because of WHAT YOU DO but because of what you DO NOT DO.
A person is not condemned because they drink, lie, steal, or commit outward acts of sin. These outward acts are only symptoms. The only reason a person is condemned is because they do not BELIEVE -- and for no other reason.
Then, too, we see that "he that believeth not" will not be condemned eventually. He is condemned NOW -- God has concluded all guilty. The sentence has been pronounced since Adam and Eve fell.
The believers- These, the Bible says, are NOT CONDEMNED.
A person becomes a believer simply by receiving the Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior.

Taratova, were you ever an unbeliever?
 
Unread 06-15-2011, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Hot-Houston Texas
19,759 posts, read 16,724,742 times
Reputation: 27459
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
That's the problem I have with UR. "Oh, that's okay"....that's most definitely not what Jesus taught.
That's why it's such a dangerous lie to belief UR, anything and everything is "ok" to them, you're right, Jesus never taught that.
 
Unread 06-15-2011, 09:04 AM
 
5,843 posts, read 2,762,545 times
Reputation: 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
That's why it's such a dangerous lie to belief UR, anything and everything is "ok" to them, you're right, Jesus never taught that.
Nope, what you have just said is a lie ILNC.
 
Unread 06-15-2011, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Hot-Houston Texas
19,759 posts, read 16,724,742 times
Reputation: 27459
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Nope, what you have just said is a lie ILNC.
Don't you believe that everyone will eventually be with Jesus? If so, that is not true.
 
Unread 06-15-2011, 09:16 AM
 
5,843 posts, read 2,762,545 times
Reputation: 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
Don't you believe that everyone will eventually be with Jesus? If so, that is not true.
Yes I believe everyone will be with Jesus.

But I do not believe anything and everything is "ok", which is what you said.
 
Unread 06-15-2011, 09:21 AM
 
Location: USA
3,322 posts, read 939,801 times
Reputation: 486
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Yes I believe everyone will be with Jesus.

But I do not believe anything and everything is "ok", which is what you said.
Brings to mind what Paul said ...

All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be enslaved by anything.

and

All things are lawful, but not all things build up.
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