OK, Let's Begin Again With Hell (Catholic, sermons, doctrine, church)

[Ilene Wright]

Originally Posted by twin.spin

Because of whom it affects, and the of the accusation of God being unfair.

To claim there is no eternal consequence for rejecting Christ is to reject the words of Christ.

Did God really say ......... Matthew 25:41-46 --- we claim yes!

• the accusers find ways to dispute it..usually by attempting to trap Jesus in his words.

Did God really say ........ John 3:36 --- we claim yes!

• the accusers find ways to dispute it..

Did God really say ..... Romans 8:8 ---- we claim yes!

• the accusers find ways to dispute it..

Did God really say ..... Hebrews 11:6 ---- we claim yes!

• the accusers find ways to dispute it..

Did God really say ..... Matthew 7:14 ---- we claim yes!

• the accusers find ways to dispute it..

The accusers? The accusers of what TS? Man, I'm really starting to worry about you. Please show me some semblance of your former self.

[migol84]

Originally Posted by meerkat2

For me it is because I was raised in a pentecostal church where fear of eternal hell seemed to be the prime motivator for belief in Jesus/God.

It did not make sense to me at that stage because of the injustice of sending millions to eternal torture even though they had not heard of Jesus, just because of the cultures that they belonged to - it seemed like a lottery of the time that you were born to even have a chance of believing in Jesus and "go to heaven" and escaping "hell".

Now that I know that eternal hell is due to translation and interpretation errors/differences I like to discuss it .....

I grew up pentecostal as well. But to me, what I've always understood my entire life is that more so than scaring people into heaven or condemning them to eternal torment, you're also misleading them into not having a pure and true life experience that God intended for us to have in Christ. Instead they follow some faith that only the preacher may or may not understand himself out of sheer fear. I'd like to rather see someone believe because they actually believe in the promises that are found in Christ. Because then you will know that the person has looked into the faith for themselves and not simply following a set of doctrines, or their denomination, but following Christ.

[Ilene Wright]

Originally Posted by migol84

I grew up pentecostal as well. But to me, what I've always understood my entire life is that more so than scaring people into heaven or condemning them to eternal torment, you're also misleading them into not having a pure and true life experience that God intended for us to have in Christ. Instead they follow some faith that only the preacher may or may not understand himself out of sheer fear. I'd like to rather see someone believe because they actually believe in the promises that are found in Christ. Because then you will know that the person has looked into the faith for themselves and not simply following a set of doctrines, or their denomination, but following Christ.

Yeah, what Migol said. Since you haven't attended your "church" in over six years then you must be getting this stuff on your own. Good for you.

[Finn_Jarber]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

No one questions your walk with Christ, Finn . . . and I am confident that the reason you walk with Christ doesn't have squat to do with your professed belief in ET either. SO . . . Why do you question URs' walk with Christ . . . just because we don't believe in ET or Annihilation? Don't say you are not questioning our walk . . . because you frequently have said that UR's are not Christians. I am not certain but you might even be one of those who has said we are children of the devil. Moderator cut: edit

I don't question people's walk with Chist, I question false teachings such as the existance of after-death conversion factories. . But then again, you already knew that.

[Finn_Jarber]

Originally Posted by Ilene Wright

We very much say that you need to accept Christ in this life, that's more important than anything. How can you say that? We DO have to accept Christ in this life, that's above anything else. And the blood of an unbeliever won't be on your hands, because you've brought so many to Christ doing it your way, right?

Why do people HAVE TO accept Christ in this life?

[Pleroo]

Originally Posted by .sparrow

I will tell you, Cantwaittoleave... I had that same fear (that I seem to be sensing in your post) for a time and I was pushed THROUGH it, my path I was on, my feet ended up walking THROUGH that fear. I was so scared, I was crying out from the depths of my soul because I looked at what I believed (that God created an eternal torture chamber) and the horror of that was so incomprehensible that my mind started to shut the door against it, to BLOCK it as so many people do, but I stuck my foot in that door... and screamed NO!!!!!!!!!!!! I will not just put this away! I will not block it from my mind, heart and soul! NO! I will force myself to LOOK AT THIS.

Me too, CantWait. And I was PUSHED through it kicking and screaming .

Walk through your fear of questioning Him.
He WANTS you to question Him.
When you ask questions about ANYTHING you gain understanding.

QUESTION YOUR CREATOR.
That is what He desires of us, otherwise He would NOT have given us the command to Love Him with ALL of our MIND, ALL of our HEART, and ALL of our SOUL.

I really appreciate the way you put this Sparrow. Those passages that speak of loving God with all your mind, heart, soul and strength (both in the OT and the NT) came fully to my attention about 20 years ago and they were so instrumental in forcing me beyond accepting pat answers, smug assurance and the elementary understanding of God and faith that I once had. (Yes, 20 years... I'm a slow learner.)

I hope someone out there, maybe lurking somewhere... sticks their foot in the door before they close the door on their "belief of hell". I pray someone out there sticks their foot in the door and does not allow themselves to be become NUMB to what it is that they believe! I pray that someone out there sticks their foot in the door and says NO!! and thinks to theirselves:

I WILL LOOK AT THIS.
I WILL QUESTION MY CREATOR ABOUT THIS!!!
Something is NOT RIGHT.

Yes. And it's not that something is wrong with GOD, CantWait, but that we realized something was wrong with our understanding of God.

And may the God of peace bring understanding and knowledge of His TRUE character to their hearts.

God wants us to KNOW Him.
He wants us to push past our FEAR.

Adam and Eve hid...out of fear.
and so do we.

So do we....

Yet there is God calling out "where are you..."

Pefect love casts out ALL fear.
God is love.

peace,
sparrow

And I don't know about you, Sparrow, but I finally realized that the feeling of fear is actually a good thing in a way. It's like when a physical illness causes symptoms that lead you to find out what the underlying prombem is so it can be treated. Fear is the symptom of a spiritual illness and if one doesn't just ignore it, it will lead them to examine what is causing it so the underlying problem can be "healed".

[twin.spin]

Originally Posted by Ilene Wright

The accusers? The accusers of what TS? Man, I'm really starting to worry about you. Please show me some semblance of your former self.

Ilene,
I appreciate the thought of your concerns....however when have I changed positions on the major differences of subjects here?

I never agreed with the opportunity for salvation beyond death
I never agreed that hell wasn't eternal, but eternal is eternal for heaven
I never agreed with Mormonism, JW's or any other religion calls itself Christian that promotes the denial of the Trinity
I never agreed that God's wrath doesn't exist, or shouldn't be down played.

Many of us, ( INLC who come to mind) have actually have the same worry for you. You may be surprised by that, be we genuinely do.


Accusers of what..?

As I have read and re-read those who you know share the same opinion with, I noticed this pattern of conclusions (said openly or insinuated):

Premise: I disagree with an eternal hell concept .... and as such I need to resolve that under the umbrella of "love", "fairness", "word meanings". These people don't realize that what they are actually doing is accusing God due to that premise. They are actually accusing God of not being loving, or fair. To me, it seems once that bridge has been crossed of the premise, word definitions are just circus shows at that point. They can no more prove what the original Greek meant by coping and pasting than can I.

What has changed on my part is that I noticed that some are blantant about it... openly mocking God, claiming he is being sadistic, cruel ect. while others are subtile about. About the time your "eye's opened" is when mine did too about the spirit of which some were coming from.

The final result of the premise is their word become the arbitrators of whom is saved. How this is accomplished is nothing new, it is accomplished by breaking scriptures into fragments and then re-assembling the fragments into their words as if Jesus spoke them, not using the entire words Jesus.

When using the entire words of Jesus, the truth is that though God desires all 1 Timothy 2:4 ... few will Matthew 7:14.

When this to be the truth because of the two distinct groups of people mentioned in Matthew 25:41-46

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber

I don't question people's walk with Chist, I question false teachings such as the existance of after-death conversion factories. . But then again, you already knew that.

I know no such thing, Finn . . . when you claim we are not Christians you are questioning our walk with Christ. That makes you an accuser of the brethren based on what YOU believe.

[Finn_Jarber]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

I know no such thing, Finn . . . when you claim we are not Christians you are questioning our walk with Christ. That makes you an accuser of the brethren based on what YOU believe.

I said that? Do you happen to have a quote? If you don't then you are the accuser, not me.

You can call yourself whatever you want. I don't have a probem with it.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber

Why do people HAVE TO accept Christ in this life?

While we are still maturing our "embryo Spirit" we can "regrow"(heal) the "bad branches" through repentance and by DOING Christ's commands to "love God and each other." After our death and rebirth as Spirit . . . all we can do is "prune the bad branches."