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Old 06-18-2011, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
34,681 posts, read 12,092,733 times
Reputation: 4328
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I volunteer to spend my eternity in hell for each and every unworthy unbeliever in the world. I will gladly take y'alls punishment.
You are not in a position to make such offers, but as you know Jesus made that offer, yet millions say "no thanks".

 
Old 06-18-2011, 07:09 PM
 
6,209 posts, read 3,819,603 times
Reputation: 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Despite of your best efforts to make it about me, it is still not about me. I cam not in a position to negotiate a different sentence for you, and I cannot put God on trial for being God.

I am not looking for specifics to make sure someone will be "tortured enough", I am looking for you to explain YOUR view. You try, but your post fails to answer the question. Do you think there is money in the afterlife which you can use to "pay every penny"? I don't' think so. You think God will beat you with a rod until it is broken? Is that really what you believe?
I have explained my view. You will reap what you sow. I would expect Hitler has a whole lot of reaping ahead of him. Do I know what that is specifically, no of course not, I'm not God. That is what you seem to be asking.

But as the scriptures indicate, I believe he will endure a lot of shame. He will receive an appropriate punishment (many stripes). No I don't think he has to pay with money. Are you being serious?!? But I do expect he will pay for what he has done. Know I don't think God will beat anyone with a physical rod. But his fury will be beaten out of him.

These scriptures are not physical descriptions of what will happen. But they do illustrate the point.

Quote:
You can't give me an answer because you don't know it.
I already said I'm not God.

Quote:
It is not explained in the Bible because it was invented by false teachers.
It is explained in the Bible. I posted some of the verses, I guess you didn't understand them. They are not literal. You don't have to literally pay pennies. But they do illustrate the truth of the matter.

Quote:
One day you preach that a loving God would never hurt anyone, which indicates a "no biggie" approach, and the next day you insist there will be severe punishment. Which is it? Do you not see the contradiction in your message.
You don't know what you are talking about.
One of the consistent points of UR is this: a loving God would never let anyone be tortured forever.
Not: a loving God would never hurt anyone.

Suffering is needful and purposeful if it leads to correction and development of character.
Eternal torment is not purposeful for anything except the vain imaginations of men.
 
Old 06-18-2011, 07:10 PM
 
6,209 posts, read 3,819,603 times
Reputation: 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
You are not in a position to make such offers, but as you know Jesus made that offer, yet millions say "no thanks".

"Father forgive them, for they know not what they do"
 
Old 06-18-2011, 07:22 PM
 
Location: RI
18,950 posts, read 9,012,621 times
Reputation: 1331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
You are not in a position to make such offers, but as you know Jesus made that offer, yet millions say "no thanks".
And that same Spirit that raised Christ(the same Christ who said "Father forgive them for they know not what they do") from the dead dwells in the believer too. So Kat's offer is perfectly valid.
 
Old 06-18-2011, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2,976 posts, read 1,529,208 times
Reputation: 216
Exclamation After following this thread from the start - my reaction

I just remembered that red is only to be used by the monitors, but the editing time has long passed by, so I will correct it here in case the monitiors delete my first message for using red print.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
After following this thread from the start, here is my reaction.

Millions of Muslims believe that non Muslims will suffer forever in hell.

"Being a Muslim does not keep one out of Hell but non-Muslims (kafir), however, will be punished eternally."
ISLAMIC BELIEFS ABOUT THE AFTERLIFE
The Afterlife in Islam - ReligionFacts

Millions of Christians believe that non-Christians will suffer forever in hell.
On this thread I know that I don't need to guide readers to evidence that this is very true.

To the unbiased student of religions, the Muslim/Christian dichotomy must appear rediculously absurd!
Because of this dichotomy most of those students probably become agnostic or atheistic.

Personally, I suffered a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78, I'm 72 now) over my inability to successfully emotionally cope with the idea that God would let anyone choose themselves into an inescapable state of everlasting suffering (Arminian), or deserve to suffer forever just by being born into the human race (Calvinist).

The reason that I am not locked away in a mental hospital right now is that I maintain a mental attitude that believers in eternal torment will remain believers in eternal torment for as long as God wants them to.

God needs them as vessels of the grossest dishonor, a foil of contrast against which He will demonstrate the power of His love that never fails and His undefeatable grace.

But after the resurrection God will refashion all believers in eternal torment into vessels of honor because they were marred in the Potter's hands and they never leave His hands.

I perceive the doctrine of eternal torment as part of the blackest of backgrounds against which God will paint His glorious masterpiece of universal transformation, using the paint brush of his undefeatable grace.

I am convinced that after believers in eternal torment have done their very best to convince others about what God will not do, I believe that God is going to do it anyway.
 
Old 06-18-2011, 07:36 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,640,645 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
You are not in a position to make such offers, but as you know Jesus made that offer, yet millions say "no thanks".
Oh damn. I thought I was being nice. To lay down my eternity for another. You say Jesus did that already? Gee... Don't I feel silly.
 
Old 06-18-2011, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,640,645 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
And that same Spirit that raised Christ(the same Christ who said "Father forgive them for they know not what they do") from the dead dwells in the believer too. So Kat's offer is perfectly valid.
And I say I'd do it even if millions protest.. What do they care if I save them from eternal hell? I don't do it because I think they'll accept it... I would do it because they won't. I do it FOR THEM that don't accept it so that it matters not whether they do or not... It is done.
 
Old 06-18-2011, 07:52 PM
 
Location: RI
18,950 posts, read 9,012,621 times
Reputation: 1331
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
And I say I'd do it even if millions protest.. What do they care if I save them from eternal hell? I don't do it because I think they'll accept it... I would do it because they won't. I do it FOR THEM that don't accept it so that it matters not whether they do or not... It is done.
It IS done Kat there's no disputing that.Not sure if i'm willing to lay down my life for others quite yet though, because i want to at least enjoy this "Old House" i'm fixing up for a few years to come .
 
Old 06-18-2011, 08:16 PM
 
22,862 posts, read 10,747,029 times
Reputation: 3854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I didn't say anything about you, or anyone else. I said I demand nothing. I don't see any connection between your post and my post, so I wonder why you typed it as a reply to my post.
Yes you did . . . you demand that God is an eternal punisher and then try to claim it is God who demands it based on what YOU believe. You would place YOUR beliefs in the place of God Himself. You fool no one, Finn. YOUR beliefs about God are what is evil . . . NOT God. We accuse God of nothing but the love that we know He IS. YOU accuse Him of the vilest of acts and demands based on the savage ignorance and superstitious beliefs of our ancient ancestors . . . rejecting Christ's revelation about God's TRUE NATURE.
 
Old 06-18-2011, 09:46 PM
Status: "ask why me ... rather than not why not them" (set 26 days ago)
 
9,404 posts, read 4,880,423 times
Reputation: 1024
Quote:

---------- good grief Ilene, you're not Miss Teflon -------------

What's that supposed to mean?
What it means is just that ....
you boasting on how loving you and your buddies are and then to agree with the most inflamatory, spiteful, hateful descriptions I think I have ever read in the name of love about God.

And you guys think that isn't going to come back and stick on you from God....?
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