OK, Let's Begin Again With Hell (myth, punishment, belief, Jesus Christ)

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber

LOL, everyone tries to make it about me, and everyone throws in some kind of judgment against me. No, it is not about me. Personally I have accepted Christ as my personal Lord and Saviour, and confessed my sins. I am saved and will be in the presence of the Lord after I die.

We ALL have been saved by Christ Finn . . . but our consequences will differ based on what we have SOWN.

But again, it is not about me, it is about universalist beliefs, which I believe is a false teaching and will lead an untold number of people to destruction.

I am in search of the answer to the question I asked some ten pages back. A universalists made this claim "you HAVE TO accept Christ in this lifetime", and I asked what happens if you don't.

Although no one has directly answered the question, I think I have my answer, and it is simple: According to UR, you do NOT HAVE TO accept Christ in this lifetime, because there is an alternate way, and that is to reject God during this lifetime, and die in your sins and then pay the price by taking a 'shaming', and then go to heaven. So, according to them there are two ways to salvation:
1. Accept it because you want it, or
2. Receive it after death after being shamed

You seem bent on lying for God, Finn . . . you are intransigent. UR's believe we HAVE TO accept Christ, period . . . YOU are hung up on WHEN that must happen. . . which is the "Prodigal Son syndrome." When is only relevant because it determines what we have built or failed to build on Christ's foundation for us all. That determines the consequences we will face. NONE of those consequences are eternal and certainly NOT ET.

[Finn_Jarber]

Originally Posted by Pleroo

And if this turns out to be the truth, Finn, why would it bother you? Both ways are really just one way according to URists ... through Christ.

I told you before: truth matters, and their view is not the truth. There is no such thing as after-death salvation process.

[katjonjj]

Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber

Nice try at changing the topic by attacking someone else's beliefs, but no cigar I have not said anything about my beliefs, I am talking about yours.

It's always about some other guy... OSAS (get out of hell free ticket) must be nice... I find it suspect that you never wanna talk about you and the consequences of your sin...

If you were to steal something does your salvation mean you don't have to go to jail? I know a confessing Christian who was just sentenced to 18 years in prison... Now he's leading a prayer meeting behind bars... Both his hands should be burned but we call that cruel and unusual punishment. Moderator cut: edit

[Finn_Jarber]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

We ALL have been saved by Christ Finn . . . but our consequences will differ based on what we have SOWN.You seem bent on lying for God, Finn . . . you are intransigent. UR's believe we HAVE TO accept Christ, period . . . YOU are hung up on WHEN that must happen. . . which is the "Prodigal Son syndrome." When is only relevant because it determines what we have built or failed to build on Christ's foundation for us all. That determines the consequences we will face. NONE of those consequences are eternal and certainly NOT ET.

Like I said, I am talking about the statement made by a UR, which stated, you HAVE TO accept Christ during this lifetime. If it is not the UR belief, then why have the URs tried to defend that statement for the last ten pages ? ?

[Finn_Jarber]

Originally Posted by katjonjj

It's always about some other guy... OSAS (get out of hell free ticket) must be nice... I find it suspect that you never wanna talk about you and the consequences of your sin...

If you were to steal something does your salvation mean you don't have to go to jail? I know a confessing Christian who was just sentenced to 18 years in prison... Now he's leading a prayer meeting behind bars... Both his hands should be burned but we call that cruel and unusual punishment. We humans need to step it up and start conforming to the Christian method of burning others. right Finn?

I asked the question because I wanted an answer, I didn't ask it because I wanted to talk about something else instead.

[legoman]

Originally Posted by legoman

I have explained my view. You will reap what you sow. I would expect Hitler has a whole lot of reaping ahead of him. Do I know what that is specifically, no of course not, I'm not God. That is what you seem to be asking.

But as the scriptures indicate, I believe he will endure a lot of shame. He will receive an appropriate punishment (many stripes). No I don't think he has to pay with money. Are you being serious?!? But I do expect he will pay for what he has done. Know I don't think God will beat anyone with a physical rod. But his fury will be beaten out of him.

These scriptures are not physical descriptions of what will happen. But they do illustrate the point.

I already said I'm not God.

It is explained in the Bible. I posted some of the verses, I guess you didn't understand them. They are not literal. You don't have to literally pay pennies. But they do illustrate the truth of the matter.

You don't know what you are talking about.
One of the consistent points of UR is this: a loving God would never let anyone be tortured forever.
Not: a loving God would never hurt anyone.

Suffering is needful and purposeful if it leads to correction and development of character.
Eternal torment is not purposeful for anything except the vain imaginations of men.

Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber

So, God will 'shame' people. To most people that is a "no biggie".

That is what you got from my post? Its like you are not even reading it. Its like you are not even putting any effort into the discussion and just pick out one sentence so you can argue on.

Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber

Sorry, but that's just the way people are. They will reject Christ, call Him "demon god", and tell Him to go to hell, and live any way they want, and then just take the shaming, and go to heaven. I don't know why you even offer 'consequence' as a part of your belief system, when obviously there aren't any real consequences.

"just take the shaming"?!? Is that what I said? NO.

I never said shame was the only consequence. Try reading my post.
But shame is an integral part of repentance - a true honest feeling of being sorry for what was done. Apparently this is "no biggie" to you. Do you know what an honest apology is?

It seems the only 'real consequence' you accept is torturing someone forever.

Try to step out of the box and understand what people are saying, otherwise it is pointless for you to enter this discussion.

[Pleroo]

Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber

Like I said, I am talking about the statement made by a UR, which stated, you HAVE TO accept Christ during this lifetime. If it is not the UR belief, then why have the URs tried to defend that statement for the last ten pages ? ?

They've answered the queston repeatedly, lol. They've said you HAVE to or there will be consequences to face. You just don't like that the consequence isn't eternal torment. You don't like that the ultimate consequence is that they will be saved too. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it not true, Finn.

[legoman]

Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber

Like I said, I am talking about the statement made by a UR, which stated, you HAVE TO accept Christ during this lifetime. If it is not the UR belief, then why have the URs tried to defend that statement for the last ten pages ? ?

What do you think 'accepting Christ' means, Finn?

'you HAVE TO accept Christ during this lifetime'

I don't know who said that or what the context was, but if someone does not 'accept Christ' now, they will continue to suffer the consequences for their negative actions, but ultimately they will come to Christ and declare Him as their Lord and Savior, for every knee will bow and every tongue confess.

If someone does 'accept Christ' now, they will be walking in the path of Christ and doing as He commanded: to love one another. Implicitly the consequences they experience will be much more positive.

Obviously it is better to follow Christ now.

[Finn_Jarber]

Originally Posted by legoman

That is what you got from my post? Its like you are not even reading it. Its like you are not even putting any effort into the discussion and just pick out one sentence so you can argue on.

"just take the shaming"?!? Is that what I said? NO.

I never said shame was the only consequence. Try reading my post.
But shame is an integral part of repentance - a true honest feeling of being sorry for what was done. Apparently this is "no biggie" to you. Do you know what an honest apology is?

It seems the only 'real consequence' you accept is torturing someone forever.

Try to step out of the box and understand what people are saying, otherwise it is pointless for you to enter this discussion.

You do not have dance around it anymore. Like I said to Pleroo, I already have my answer: according to UR you do NOT HAVE TO accept Christ in this lifetime, and every post you make proves it further.

It would have been easier for you to just say that the statement is false, but instead you chose to defend it and expose UR as an belief where the fear of severe punishment should convert people into belief, but at the same time it also leaves the door open for complete rejection of Christ for those who don't mind paying the price after death.

[Finn_Jarber]

Originally Posted by Pleroo

They've answered the queston repeatedly, lol. They've said you HAVE to or there will be consequences to face. You just don't like that the consequence isn't eternal torment. You don't like that the ultimate consequence is that they will be saved too. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it not true, Finn.

No, you don't have to, since there is a choise of not accepting Him, and still find the way to heaven through an after death 'shaming' process.

You still try to make it about me. I have not said anything about what I like, or don't like. And why should I? After all, my likes or dislikes will not change a thing? It is what it is.