Filthy rags (gnostic, mystic, Jesus Christ, Bible)

[Taratova]

Originally Posted by stillkit

The verse you're referring to is Isaiah 64:6, which says in total:

Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.


This verse is contained in a lament, or structured prayer, by the prophet Isaiah, and directed at Israel. It points out a couple of important principles which have New Testament implications.

Isaiah begins by begging God to come down and make the mountains flow (lava) and to boil the water just to make Himself known to His adversaries and to make the nations take notice of Him and, even when He did, nobody saw Him. Since the beginning of time, men have not seen or heard what God has done, nor have the perceived what He has in store for those who "waiteth upon" Him. God rejoices and will save those who turn to Him in repentance, though we have all sinned. (A precursor, or shadow, of the coming salvation by accepting Jesus Christ, the Messiah).

Then, Isaiah points out that we all similar to an "unclean" thing: Defiled by our sin. Our "righteousness," or right standing before God, is as a "filthy rag." That phrase literally means a "menstrual rag," or in a modern context, a Kotex. Because of our sin, we are no more worthy to stand before God than a bloody Kotex! No matter how much "good" we do, it's not enough and never will be because our sin has separated us from God.

Next, the prophet begs God to remember that we're all just as clay in the hands of the potter (Him) and to please not destroy us all because we've sinned.

Now...what's the New Testament implication of all that? Go to Romans 3, which was written by Paul to formerly Jewish believers in Rome.

Beginning in verse 9, Paul basically restates what Isaiah had said centuries before:

Rom 3:9 What then? are we better [than they]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

He goes on for several verses categorizing how people who do not look for God act, culminating in this: Verse 18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes." ( Pro 1:7 "The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction.")

He sums it up much as Isaiah had done: Verse 23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" We have no righteousness before God. He could have as easily compared our lack of righteousness to menstrual rag as Isaiah did!

But, like the prophet of old, Paul offers a way out. While Isaiah told us God would save us from our sins and unrighteousness, Paul tells us how (which Isaiah could not have known as he lived under the old Covenant):

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Rom 3:26 To declare, [I say], at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Paul tells us that God himself sent Christ Jesus to pay for our sins and, because of our voluntary, willing acceptance of Christ, He will designate us as righteous, so that our righteousness does not rest in what we DO, but in whom we TRUST. Our "filthy rags" will become spotless garments of white in God's eyes because of Christ, not because of anything we do or fail to do.

I agree with your post ,but just one thing....


I don't believe it changes anything by deciphering what kind of rag it is.. we get the meaning without a complete description. I don't think the word dung needs a description either. We can look at the basic meaning and it does not really change the spirit of what is being said. It does not benefit God

.I don't believe we need a complete description of every word if the meaning is substantial and holds up the truth spoken.

[CantWait2Leave]

Originally Posted by Reverend1111

I don't believe in satan so I can't listen to someone or something I don't believe. Just because it's in the bible, does not make it true. You do realize the bible has been altered to suit the editors so that they can control you people, right? Looks like it's working pretty good.

The devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. You don't even realize it, but you are the perfect prey. The Bible is the standard of Truth. No, the Bible has not been altered to suit the editors, but I'm not surprised you say that because again, you are listening to lies from the enemy. Jesus Christ is the alpha and omega. Nothing but the blood of Jesus washes away sins. If there was another way to the Father than He wouldn't have had to die, but He died so that we may live. This is the love of Christ. He is alive today and is the King of kings and Lord of lords. He will reign forever.

[ChristyGrl]

Originally Posted by jimmiej

Can you give a few examples of Scripture that are not inspired by God, according to the Holy Spirit's revelation to you?

Any scripture that doesn't speak a message of love...any of them having to do with wrath, judgement, hell, etc. are not words from God...those are mans words to keep people in line and what a fine job they've done over the centuries.

The majority of Christians are so afraid of the man made Sky God, how that God will judge them and what will happen to them if they don't do things exactly the right way...that they miss the real God completely. Just look at many of threads started by Christians...the fear is palpable in all of them. God is a God of LOVE not FEAR.

[ChristyGrl]

Originally Posted by Taratova

The Holy Spirit of Godi is our teacher. If what we decide to beilieve and it does not line up with the entire word of God it is heresy. We can't define God without the Word of God.

We will know if it is truth if we read the word and flll our hearts with his word. If we hear someone making a statement on what God is we test it with the word. If it lines up it is truth , if it does not , we reject it and we are warned to constantly guard our hearts to what is truth and what is not.

Jesus expressly said...that it is the SPIRIT that will you lead you into ALL truth...not a book. Why don't you believe him???????????? Do you think the SPIRIT would lie to you??????????????

[Taratova]

Originally Posted by christygrl

jesus expressly said...that it is the spirit that will you lead you into all truth...not a book. Why don't you believe him???????????? Do you think the spirit would lie to you??????????????

Words are spirit. John6:63 makes it very clear the bible is spirit the wordi is spirit.

http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=John+6:63

[ChristyGrl]

Originally Posted by Pleroo

(Warning: rambling ahead. Feel free to skip to the questions in blue.)


This is where I got stuck yesterday. I agree that people create god. Many Christians like to think that they accept every word of the bible as true but those same people still come up with sometimes vastly different interpretations of what those words actually mean and tell us about the God of the bible. People create their own god, even if they use the bible to do it. Which leads me to think that "god" really is just a construct of the human mind.

There may very well be an underlying Reality/Source/God that people are perceiving in different ways, but it does make one wonder how they think they ever could trust their perceptions, even if those perceptions are supposedly based on the bible,

So, perhaps a better question for this thread, since the majority of the people responding are of the "God is Love" ilk, is why are you so sure of that one thing? Personally, I got that from the bible and it resonated very strongly with me and that is what I began to filter everything through, as do many of you. But, apparently, for many people what resonates is the "God is anger, wrath, justice" and "men are worms and filthy rags" paradigm through which they filter everything else in the bible. Both groups got their basic premise from the bible.

For me, personally, I do see Love as the most powerful force for good on this planet so it makes sense to me to think of "God" in that way. But I also see that much in human nature does not reflect that Source so it hasn't made as much progress as one would think it should have. More curiously yet, I also see that much in nature does not seem to reflect Love: the randomness of evolution, the survival of the fittest, extinction of species ... in my mind, those things don't fit a God who is Love and intimately involved in the affairs of our world.

So is the only thing you have to go on an "inner witness" to the idea that God is Love (and people aren't filthy rags ), even though so very many others do not share that witness? Why do you trust that your "witness" is true? What confirms that for you? ETA: Really, this question can go either way ... why do people who filter their beliefs/the bible through a different paradigm than "God is love" feel that their paradigm/their "inner witness", is the right one?

Yes...you go by what your inner witness reveals to you...not mans interpretations. It's all a matter of Consciousness Evolution Pleroo (this is Gods plan for humanity to bring us all to Christ Consciousness one day)...some are content to live with their lower consciousness, keeping their beliefs of the mythic God who is angry, wrathful, jealous, judgemental, etc...then there are some who have evoled consciously to a higher state and these are the ones who come to the realization that this is not who God is. Never doubt what has been revealed to you from within...never doubt it because that is the truth and I think you already know that.

[Taratova]

Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave

The devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. You don't even realize it, but you are the perfect prey. The Bible is the standard of Truth. No, the Bible has not been altered to suit the editors, but I'm not surprised you say that because again, you are listening to lies from the enemy. Jesus Christ is the alpha and omega. Nothing but the blood of Jesus washes away sins. If there was another way to the Father than He wouldn't have had to die, but He died so that we may live. This is the love of Christ. He is alive today and is the King of kings and Lord of lords. He will reign forever.

Amen!

[ChristyGrl]

Originally Posted by stillkit

Without any original documents for comparison, how can you claim the message has been adulterated?

Please take the time to study the original docs that we do have....they are LOADED with mans additions, deletions, edits, etc. You're on the internet so you do have access to everything you will need for this assignment.

[Taratova]

Originally Posted by ChristyGrl

Please take the time to study the original docs that we do have....they are LOADED with mans additions, deletions, edits, etc. You're on the internet so you do have access to everything you will need for this assignment.

If you do not believe every word as the inspired word of God you are an unbeliever. You have gone astray and have made a path to your own God , your own moral conciiousness has become your god and by saying what you posted you have denied Christ. To deny the word is to deny Christ.

[ChristyGrl]

Originally Posted by Taratova

If you do not believe every word as the inspired word of God you are an unbeliever. You have gone astray and have made a path to your own God , your own moral conciiousness has become your god and by saying what you posted you have denied Christ. To deny the word is to deny Christ.

And you've made it very clear that you have absolutely NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!!! But it's not your fault and I know that...you just haven't evolved consciously yet and are unable to even consider any other viewpoint but your own...that is just basic Psychology 101. When they crucified Jesus, he knew this as well...remember his words...Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. People who have not evolved to a higher consciousness CANNOT understand people who have and therefore they can only function in the realm of the consciousness they possess. If one is not willing to SEEK FIRST THE KINGDOM...which Jesus clearly stated is WITHIN US...one will never evolve to a higher consciousness to that of the Christ Consciousness so that they can actually see and experience the Kingdom within...Gods Kingdom.