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Old 05-29-2011, 11:30 AM
 
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Bible prophecy is unfolding before our very eyes. I have no doubt that we are living in the last days, and pretty soon this will become evident. Technology is coming to a critical point and in some cases such as cloning has crossed this point IMO.

The world is moving towards a paradigm shift where they will reject the creator. New Age/ old age gnostic groups are calling this the "Age of Aquarius." All signs point to some ET "aliens" arriving at some point in the future proselytizing this perspective (Annunaki/Atlantis/ Genesis 6 Nephilim). In short, they will say they wrote the Bible and our creators - genetically altering our DNA. They will deny the deity of the messiah as God in the flesh. They'll say we can be gods like them. It will be eating from the tree of good and evil mentioned in Genesis 3 which has nothing to do with eating an apple, but everything to do with choosing to be g-ds rejecting the provision by the creator.

This "alien deception" will be the Creator's judgement upon mankind for rejecting him. UFOs are in the Bible (read Zechariah 5), and there are ancient drawings of them. Ancient civilizations also worshiped the planet Mars out of fear of the gods associated with the planets. This is the basis of pagan worship mentioned throughout the entire Bible. These pagan "gods" are fallen angels mentioned in Genesis 6, Jude, Book of enoch, etc.

If you start opening your heart and mind to prophecy, while searching what's going on in the world, it will become obvious. Biblical prophecy is the only 100 percent sure way of understanding future events. It does this because it is history written in advance by a creator that is outside the time dimension altogether.

Historical records support biblical events. There is evidence for a young earth and intelligent design. The symbiotic relationship with nature defines the randomness of evolution as absurd by scientific standards. The reason for the evolution religion, is because that is what will be used in the upcoming paradigm shift. We can "evolve to be g-ds." This will be the lie. It's not about where we came from as much as where we are headed.

I don't think it's a stretch to believe all that we do in this life will be judged by our creator. I believe what the Bible says in that we are being molded as clay as he (masculine but triune Godhead with Christ as the revealing of God in the flesh) is the potter molding us. This is the importance of faith. We have been given free will just as the angels. I believe it is a way to test our hearts to see where our allegiance lies.

At some point in the near future it seems, we will have to draw a line in the sand. Do we follow this upcoming evolutionary paradigm shift of collective consciousness proclaiming we can become g-ds? Or do we believe the Bible when it says this is definitely taking the "mark of the beast" thus rejecting the creator's provision that we can become under his authority "Sons of God." The bible says the majority of humanity will choose the false evolution. It will be the lie.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 (King James Version)

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


Zechariah 5:1-4 (King James Version)

1Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll.

2And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying roll; the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits.

3Then said he unto me, This is the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side according to it; and every one that sweareth shall be cut off as on that side according to it.

4I will bring it forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief, and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name: and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof


Revelation 9

1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

2And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

4And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

5And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

6And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

7And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.

8And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.

9And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.

10And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

11And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Apollyon can be identified as the greek sun god Apollo. In Egypt he was known as Osiris or Horus. In Babylon it was Nimrod/Tammuz.

Last edited by Mikelee81; 05-29-2011 at 11:39 AM..
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Old 05-29-2011, 11:39 AM
 
6,824 posts, read 4,912,821 times
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YouTube - ‪Zeitgeist - Horus - Jesus Connection.m4v‬‏

Evidence certain groups are frontloading inquiring minds for the return of this sun g-d/demon.
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Old 05-29-2011, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,341 posts, read 21,048,103 times
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Originally Posted by Cyber Munchkin View Post
So with that said, you, Katzpur can believe and live in whatever you call or think is truth..... that is up too you !! Yet it is God you will answer to one day, not what I think, say or anyone else says about His word..... that is why it is called a personal relationship with Him.

Have a nice day....
You are absolutely right. It is God we will all answer to one day, and none of us are going to be called upon to determine anybody else's relationship to God. I would never presume to tell anybody else they don't have a relationship with God, but I know a heck of a lot of people who have no qualms about saying that to me.
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Old 05-29-2011, 12:14 PM
 
Location: West TN
4 posts, read 2,959 times
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It's very nice to find a group that is civil.
We are all to have or own idea's any way. As it was written "to the 7 Churches"
All have different views.
Our Father in Heaven put it best when he answered Moses when he ask, who do I say told me these things.
Our Father in Heaven ( as I say ) responded, I am that I am.
Just the way I see it.
Later saying have no other Gods before me, because they had one for everything back then.
Thanks for letting me putt my 2 in. Tony

Last edited by Tony P; 05-29-2011 at 12:20 PM.. Reason: can't half see or spell
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Old 06-11-2011, 12:05 PM
 
Location: missouri
1,179 posts, read 1,181,383 times
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I assume here that issues of "no error", infallible in its entirety, and such are not the issues; such parentheses merely detract from certain other key issues and avoid understanding such things in historical contexts and such (the message in this book was for the past as well as the future, and must be there for all of humanity through all time-try writing something like that). If there is a god as the christian one that orthodox theology has proclaimed, such distractions are known to him and are ordained, besides; these and even the other distractions that we do not know about work towards this god's purpose.

The human consciousness is a closed system (in the bible, this is referred to as the "flesh" and "death" and such like). Both of the two great western philosophical systems, transcendentalism and idealism have illustrated this (perhaps I should go through this) as these were worked out. The human consciousness in its "natural" state orientates itself toward a system (as a discipline, this is called philosophy); or completeness (a system is a completed structure); it desires "being". The problem with this is that it is always "becoming" and never reaches a completeness either as individual or that monstrous abstraction; collective consciousness. Death always prevents completion, and one then after death can not look around and figure it all out; same with a collective, as it always progresses or such, and needs all of time to sum itself up. This is not available to it or the individual. All human beings die before its completion, and that is the contradiction in consciousness; the drive for system or "being" but always in "becoming".

As closed the human or collective consciousness can not place itself into the truth. All attempts at this derive the truth from the consciousness itself (transcendentalism and idealism both show this as knowing is derived there, or when the self goes out and returns to itself in thought; what it knows it knows from itself. You are culturally derived, not an independently shaped consciousness derived from your own power, independence is a fiction, and if from the West, you were schooled under derivatives of its philosophies as these were dumbed down and entered into education, entertainment and such; so your thinking is developed from them {an interesting thought here would be to get this further after Nietzsche, and the idea of mere "will" rather than intellect, but here, one would still be within one's close consciousness}). Orthodox theology knew this, and theology begins to be at its best when it understands this problem of consciousness.

The problem that is rarely discussed is the problem of knowing, how to know what one knows and where does one get the information that one knows. Theologically, if I derive god from my closed consciousness, where my self goes into thought and it returns to myself, I have derived god from my own thought, and my consciousness is the authority; that is termed idolatry (and with the rabble is usually voiced as mere authoritative opinion). If I partially derive god from my closed consciousness, then I must account for that addition, how it contradicts the bible or dovetails into it and the like; a method must be explained to account for such activity; where does one derive authority to do this, and since no one has such personal authority (one is either a prophet or an apostle or the messiah himself) the method has to carry one's right (since opinion is useless here, one should state how one arrived at one's conclusions-this I never see); however, it comes from the closed consciousness so is still idolatry.

The first protestants understood all this (a reading of Luther shows this) before Kant and Hegel built their systems, they probably understood this theologically, but they were schooled in the philosophy at the time, and as the catholics were pushing the authority of the closed consciousness (man is not totally fallen but is still somewhat devine), the protestants came up with the "sola scriptura" or bible only, as the source of truth. This can not be accepted out side of one being in grace as the closed system can not put itself into truth, but must be placed there by god himself.

When one starts coming up with their own stuff and additions one is not in theology but philosophy. One is speculating and attempting a system. One is only moving around in one's mind. Usually this person moves from reality (himself, nature, social; such as church authority {always himself though}) to god (reason is the moving) rather than moving from god to reality. To move from god, one has to know god, as god is in himself, not the one created from one's own mind: how does one know this god is the problem. There are only two possible theological positions for men; the circles within itself consciousness is "being in Adam"; and the consciousness opened by god for god is "being in Christ". God is freedom, true "being", and as such has the power to give or withhold himself. This latter consciousness has been opened for "revelation" the former has not.
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Old 06-17-2011, 04:54 PM
 
Location: missouri
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There are several ramifications to all this.

The dunder head who says there is nothing in the bible for modern man....well is a dunder head. All of this philosophy has beed worked out and illustrated in several stories that make up the bible. The philosophy is not didactic as the modern mind is so comfortable with, ie, it needs to be told what is what, rather than work it out in mind.

This idea that this philosophy is here, means that the mind of "being in Adam" has access to this information, say for example, the bible is just information (not devine in origin). This would be like any information or object that the mind comes across. The mind brings it into cognition (the transcendental or idealist), sorts it, organizes it, systemizes it. Mind, the self enclosed mind, does this to all objects and ideas that it comes across (there is no thinking outside the box).

Since god has agreed with the satan that man has become like god, his own creator and lord now, the mind is self enclosed; as explained above. Even a person can encounter the god printed in the bible, encounter god, as idea in text, and not encounter god. That is a very important issue here. Mind assumes now that it is lord over this material, that this material is at its disposal. That is why election, predestination, hell, and such, as doctrines are falling by the way.

The way of salvation today illustrates this. One thinks that he hears the idea, and then by "will" decides or rejects the idea; just as if he were deciding to become a democrat or republican-the mind that assumes these decisions, and others like them, are the same process, accepting god or becoming a party member, or should I get chocolate or white milk, is a mind still in the "being of Adam". Once one is place into "being in Christ" by the god himself, one then decides for it (the "freedom" of the creature). "Being in Adam" can not accept this truth as it is not in the truth.

The bible is an object like all objects in one's environment (here I am also placing ideas, even though composed of thought, are still in the environment even though these seem to be enclosed in mind. Even "real" objects are brought into cognition through "appearance" not actually [how would one put a TV set actually in the mind?], so these objects are also turned into thoughts [even though data forum atheists don't think their atheism is subject to cognition!].

When one encounters the bible then, say as being in Adam, it is treated as all other objects; from the "curved into itself" mind. As such, being in Adam can accept or reject this text, just as any other text. Bring it into mind and then become lord of it, systematize it (ancient wisdom, aesthetic, ethical, jewish, religious expression, a moment in the development of god, etc). This lordship is characterized, among other things, as adding to it, rejecting it, putting words into the text's mouth, bringing it under the dominion of current social thoughts and laws, etc, etc.

One then can appear very religious, very christian, and still be outside, still "being in Adam". I rather assume that most of the church is like this although I have no statistical data. But just watching how dumb the church is and how self centered the members, how disrespectful to theology and bible, well, what would account for it.

Both what passes today as liberal and conservative fall into this "cor curvum en se". The infallible, inspired bible doctrine was an attempt to bypass being placed into the truth (election and such). Because one could assume that when encountering this text as object, one could bring it into cognition as truth, as the the object was assumed to be absolute truth (faith is gone here, and one rests on infallible knowledge brought into mind from this text, eo epso, "being in Adam" could place itself into the truth through itself; I would wager 5 dollars payable here in my town by the dog statue at the court house that most of fundy christianity rests on this assumption). One could then actually be very pro bible and be an idolator simply by reifying theological ideas; still "being in Adam", still in untruth.

Probably liberal christianity, if it has any spirit left uses the above as well, but it also wants to get every Tom, Dick, and Harry as ministers, wants to be commies, and democrats, abort babies and such. In order to do this, the bible has to be modified or critiqued through several textual methods, historical methods, what god really meant was...(probably the most common of dufuss statements), and such like. This panders to the "self enclosed mind". it lords over this text and seeks itself in it (as all operations of systems, whether psychic or social). This is as mind interacts with all objects as "self enclosed"; not placed into the truth (of course this process works good for making a stove or airplane; maybe even running a democracy; but not in "being in Christ").

Universalists come off bad here, not only from all of the above, but "being in Adam", as I have described, it should be obvious that to die in this "cor curvum en se" is to die alone; turned in on oneself. Self enclosed, in untruth. One dies in one sins. That is why there is a hell (as turned inward Mark Twain will not be having fun with his drinking buddies). Man is both himself and the race; genus and particular. "Being in Adam" places one in continuity with the fallen race (being) and as himself (self enclosed mind), he is placed in act or the existential-but both. Adam is characterized as the continuity, but each as particular self enclosed-to die in this state, is to die self enclosed even though as one of the genus (the genus is characterized as self enclosed in untruth). Being in Christ means one is placed into that community, characterized by Christ, as open (god breaks in to the self enclosed and places it in truth), as individual and genus-both open and in truth.

This has implications for the social.
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Old 06-17-2011, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Florida
21,517 posts, read 10,534,518 times
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Originally Posted by allen antrim View Post
There are several ramifications to all this.

The dunder head who says there is nothing in the bible for modern man....well is a dunder head. All of this philosophy has beed worked out and illustrated in several stories that make up the bible. The philosophy is not didactic as the modern mind is so comfortable with, ie, it needs to be told what is what, rather than work it out in mind.

This idea that this philosophy is here, means that the mind of "being in Adam" has access to this information, say for example, the bible is just information (not devine in origin). This would be like any information or object that the mind comes across. The mind brings it into cognition (the transcendental or idealist), sorts it, organizes it, systemizes it. Mind, the self enclosed mind, does this to all objects and ideas that it comes across (there is no thinking outside the box).

Since god has agreed with the satan that man has become like god, his own creator and lord now, the mind is self enclosed; as explained above. Even a person can encounter the god printed in the bible, encounter god, as idea in text, and not encounter god. That is a very important issue here. Mind assumes now that it is lord over this material, that this material is at its disposal. That is why election, predestination, hell, and such, as doctrines are falling by the way.

The way of salvation today illustrates this. One thinks that he hears the idea, and then by "will" decides or rejects the idea; just as if he were deciding to become a democrat or republican-the mind that assumes these decisions, and others like them, are the same process, accepting god or becoming a party member, or should I get chocolate or white milk, is a mind still in the "being of Adam". Once one is place into "being in Christ" by the god himself, one then decides for it (the "freedom" of the creature). "Being in Adam" can not accept this truth as it is not in the truth.

The bible is an object like all objects in one's environment (here I am also placing ideas, even though composed of thought, are still in the environment even though these seem to be enclosed in mind. Even "real" objects are brought into cognition through "appearance" not actually [how would one put a TV set actually in the mind?], so these objects are also turned into thoughts [even though data forum atheists don't think their atheism is subject to cognition!].

When one encounters the bible then, say as being in Adam, it is treated as all other objects; from the "curved into itself" mind. As such, being in Adam can accept or reject this text, just as any other text. Bring it into mind and then become lord of it, systematize it (ancient wisdom, aesthetic, ethical, jewish, religious expression, a moment in the development of god, etc). This lordship is characterized, among other things, as adding to it, rejecting it, putting words into the text's mouth, bringing it under the dominion of current social thoughts and laws, etc, etc.

One then can appear very religious, very christian, and still be outside, still "being in Adam". I rather assume that most of the church is like this although I have no statistical data. But just watching how dumb the church is and how self centered the members, how disrespectful to theology and bible, well, what would account for it.

Both what passes today as liberal and conservative fall into this "cor curvum en se". The infallible, inspired bible doctrine was an attempt to bypass being placed into the truth (election and such). Because one could assume that when encountering this text as object, one could bring it into cognition as truth, as the the object was assumed to be absolute truth (faith is gone here, and one rests on infallible knowledge brought into mind from this text, eo epso, "being in Adam" could place itself into the truth through itself; I would wager 5 dollars payable here in my town by the dog statue at the court house that most of fundy christianity rests on this assumption). One could then actually be very pro bible and be an idolator simply by reifying theological ideas; still "being in Adam", still in untruth.

Probably liberal christianity, if it has any spirit left uses the above as well, but it also wants to get every Tom, Dick, and Harry as ministers, wants to be commies, and democrats, abort babies and such. In order to do this, the bible has to be modified or critiqued through several textual methods, historical methods, what god really meant was...(probably the most common of dufuss statements), and such like. This panders to the "self enclosed mind". it lords over this text and seeks itself in it (as all operations of systems, whether psychic or social). This is as mind interacts with all objects as "self enclosed"; not placed into the truth (of course this process works good for making a stove or airplane; maybe even running a democracy; but not in "being in Christ").

Universalists come off bad here, not only from all of the above, but "being in Adam", as I have described, it should be obvious that to die in this "cor curvum en se" is to die alone; turned in on oneself. Self enclosed, in untruth. One dies in one sins. That is why there is a hell (as turned inward Mark Twain will not be having fun with his drinking buddies). Man is both himself and the race; genus and particular. "Being in Adam" places one in continuity with the fallen race (being) and as himself (self enclosed mind), he is placed in act or the existential-but both. Adam is characterized as the continuity, but each as particular self enclosed-to die in this state, is to die self enclosed even though as one of the genus (the genus is characterized as self enclosed in untruth). Being in Christ means one is placed into that community, characterized by Christ, as open (god breaks in to the self enclosed and places it in truth), as individual and genus-both open and in truth.

This has implications for the social.
We don't put the bible as an object into our mind .We are born of the spirit. It is a spiritual living word that is not an object. It is spirit and lives in our hearts and spirit.

You see it as just a book. We see it as the living word of God which it is. Jesus spoke of the word as being living.

The word has always been . It was spoken by God. It is spoken by God through the Holy Spirit which leads us to the truth. Our faith is increased. One cannot see faith yet Christians possess faith by hearing the word of God.

God gives us his spirit and we have his word. It is not an object. No one that I know ever bowed down to the bible . It is read and we love the word with our spirit. We put God's word in our hearts.

You speak of liberal Christians. I know of one kind of Christian. True believers who follow the true Christ and his word.

Your words show you as trying to be the judge of God and not a follower.

We do not look at what you call liberal Christians. We look at Jesus Christ. It is through him we find the truth.
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Old 06-17-2011, 11:34 PM
 
Location: missouri
1,179 posts, read 1,181,383 times
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Do you read? Do you know what I am saying at all? Are or you just preaching? If you read my last two posts, and if you are capable of comprehension, I have laid out the two possible forms of the bible as from the perspective of the lost and the called. If you do not understand stay away from my posts,

I judge nothing I merely observe. "By their works you shall know them"; one need not judge, just compare works. I also spoke of conservatives-I think little of both, as both today spit on the bible and substitute their own consciousness (or in the old philosophical days, their own spirit).

If you have any senses at all, the bible presents itself as an object; or do you not see it? Or do you not feel it? Or do you not read it? That is the issue as to how one "handles" it within the problems of being human. Or perhaps, as you evidently speak for others, as with data forum atheists, you have advanced beyond the human and no longer need thought but have become pure spirit.
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Old 06-17-2011, 11:48 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,785,380 times
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Originally Posted by allen antrim View Post
Do you read? Do you know what I am saying at all? Are or you just preaching? If you read my last two posts, and if you are capable of comprehension, I have laid out the two possible forms of the bible as from the perspective of the lost and the called. If you do not understand stay away from my posts,

I judge nothing I merely observe. "By their works you shall know them"; one need not judge, just compare works. I also spoke of conservatives-I think little of both, as both today spit on the bible and substitute their own consciousness (or in the old philosophical days, their own spirit).

If you have any senses at all, the bible presents itself as an object; or do you not see it? Or do you not feel it? Or do you not read it? That is the issue as to how one "handles" it within the problems of being human. Or perhaps, as you evidently speak for others, as with data forum atheists, you have advanced beyond the human and no longer need thought but have become pure spirit.
You didn't quote anyone so I'm wondering who this post is directed at?
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Old 06-18-2011, 01:13 AM
 
Location: missouri
1,179 posts, read 1,181,383 times
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the one before-why?
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