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Originally Posted by Eusebius
Ecc 6:6 Even supposing he lived twice a thousand years and saw no good; Are not all going to the same place?
Ecc_9:3 This is the evil in all that is done under the sun: That one destiny is for all; Moreover the heart of the sons of humanity is full of evil, And ravings are in their heart throughout their life, Yet after it, they are joined to the dead."
Ecclesiastes is inspired by God to be the truth.
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Mr5150 replied:
So the unbelievers go to heaven when they die? That is what you are saying. Same place.
Sorry, but Jesus taught otherwise: that whoever believes in Him should not perish buthave eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.---You do know what the word "perish" means?
So did Mr. J. Baptist: He who believes in the Son has Eternal life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.---not see life, that is the opposite of Life.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.---You do know what the word "perish" means?
No believers are in heaven when they die.
No unbelievers are in heaven when they die.
The only time the believer meets the Lord is when the Lord returns for us and then all believers together, at the same time, meet the Lord in the air. It is not a "one-at-a-time" meeting the Lord.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have EONIAN life.---You do know what the word "perish" means?
Jesus said He came to seek and to save the perished sheep of the house of Israel. Being perished is necessary to salvation.
He who believes in the Son has EONIAN life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see [EONIAN] life, but the wrath of God abides on him.---not see [EONIAN] life.
John already told us what the believer gets: "eonian life". The second time "life" is used in the save verse it is an elipsis where he believes the reader is smart enough to see "eonian" should be read before the word "life" because that is what he is talking about.
Joh 3:13 And no one has ascended into heaven except He Who descends out of heaven, the Son of Mankind Who is in heaven."
Very nice OP Eusebius, and I agree wholeheartedly. No one is with God when they die, there is so much more that needs to take place before any of us "see" God. I'm not so sure about a Rapture any longer but I still agree with all that you said.
Yes, but only if they have Jesus as their King, their personal Lord & Saviour who gives eternal life because of His death on the cross. But if Heaven is just as nonexistent as Hell, what would be the point of having Jesus as your Saviour? If there is no life after death, then Christian faith is uttlerly pointless. City-Data posters have placated themselves with anti-Christian heresies!
I am not sure about the mechanics of what happens when we take our last breath----whether we go into "deep freeze" i.e. suspended animation for a couple thousand eons before being raised, or whether our spirit immediately "returns to the God who gave it". Innumerable near-death-experience accounts suggest the latter; the Bible gives checkered references to the former.
What I am sure of as a UR'er, however, is that no one who dies in a state of unforgiveness (absence of the blood of Jesus to cover his sins) will enter heaven's portals until they have gone through an age-lasting correction in the flames of hell until their evil works have been burned away and their spirit is saved.
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If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Context, context, context.
V. 15 is based on V.11. V.15 only applies if your foundation is Christ. Unbelievers do not have Christ as their foundation. Besides, this section has to do with one's works in this life.
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Originally Posted by thrillobyte
What I am sure of as a UR'er, however, is that no one who dies in a state of unforgiveness (absence of the blood of Jesus to cover his sins) will enter heaven's portals until they have gone through an age-lasting correction in the flames of hell until their evil works have been burned away and their spirit is saved.
Wait, wait....now UR folk are saying there is a hell, with flames!
UR contains much in the way of "unique" theology as this thead is showing.
For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Context, context, context.
V. 15 is based on V.11. V.15 only applies if your foundation is Christ. Unbelievers do not have Christ as their foundation. Besides, this section has to do with one's works in this life.
Who says? The fire that will test each one's works is the fire of God's microscopic examination of our works on the Day of Judgement when rewards and punishments are meted out.
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Originally Posted by Mr5150
Wait, wait....now UR folk are saying there is a hell, with flames!
I don't know of a true UR'er who said there isn't. All they say is that the souls of sinners consigned there via God's judgement will NOT stay there forever. Try reading it again, but this time without the blinders of ET'ism:
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but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
I'm looking forward to the continuation of having the dross removed.
In other words, "to hell with me".
He is a refiner, and I trust Him.
I know that He loves me, and His judgements of me will be rooted in love.
I have absolute trust in HIM. He created me. He subjected me to this contrast of love and non-love for a reason. I know He will do the right thing and see me through...
God is love.
LOVE created me.
What a thought...!
peace,
sparrow
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More, strange UR teachings? A trick to negate what Jesus stated in John 3:16 about having eternal life instead of perishing?
