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Old 08-07-2011, 12:24 PM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savedbysovereigngrace View Post
What is a Birth ?

In continuing to understand what Jesus means by " Ye must be born again " we will be more specific as to what a birth is. The greek word in our text is the word gennaō and means:


of men who fathered children

a) to be born

b) to be begotten

1) of women giving birth to children

2) metaph.

a) to engender, cause to arise, excite

b) in a Jewish sense, of one who brings others over to his way of life, to convert someone

c) of God making Christ his son

d) of God making men his sons through faith in Christ's work

As stated earlier, we must be first the offspring of the One giving birth, mainly the Father.

A birth is a continuing of a Father, a Progenitor , of whom they [the seed] take their image after. Remember Gen 5:3-4

3And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

4And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

The word for beget and begotten in this passage is the Hebrew word yalad and means :

to bear, bring forth, beget, gender, travail

a) (Qal)

1) to bear, bring forth

a) of child birth

b) of distress (simile)

c) of wicked (behaviour)

2) to beget

b) (Niphal) to be born

c) (Piel)

1) to cause or help to bring forth

2) to assist or tend as a midwife

3) midwife (participle)

d) (Pual) to be born

e) (Hiphil)

1) to beget (a child)

Now how did Seth become Adam's offspring or seed ? Remember Eve said at his birth Gen 4:25

25And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed[Offspring] instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

Did Seth become Adam's Offspring by His own will ? Was it His choice to be born of As Adam's seed ? Or was it as Eve stated, that God hath appointed Him their seed or Offspring. We may learn that it's up to God's appointment who belongs to whose offspring and whom they will receive birth.

So its only one way that Seth became the Offspring of Adam, that was by the Sovereign purpose of God.

A birth, a seed, is determined by God, not the freewill of men. Its the continuation of a man's image and likeness.
Joh 3:3 JesusG2424 answeredG611 andG2532 saidG2036 unto him,G846 Verily,G281 verily,G281 I sayG3004 unto thee,G4671 ExceptG3362 a manG5100 be bornG1080 again,G509 he cannotG1410 G3756 seeG1492 theG3588 kingdomG932 of God.G2316

G1080
γεννάω
gennaō
ghen-nah'-o
From a variation of G1085; to procreate (properly of the father, but by extension of the mother); figuratively to regenerate: - bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring.

G509
άνωθεν
anōthen
an'-o-then
From G507; from above; by analogy from the first; by implication anew: - from above, again, from the beginning (very first), the top.
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Old 08-07-2011, 01:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
the actual Greek says 'born from above'...
Of course, where do you think Jesus is ? Col 3:1

1If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

He is the incorruptible seed, the Word or Logos of God..
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Old 08-08-2011, 04:16 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savedbysovereigngrace View Post
Of course, where do you think Jesus is ? Col 3:1

1If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

He is the incorruptible seed, the Word or Logos of God..
The point I was trying to make was that the english should of translated the true meaning instead of rendering it as again...This statement followed the statement that Nicodemus made declaring that he reconized who Christ truely was...Born again puts a different picture in one's mind than does born from above...Seeing that the Jews knew that everyone was born from Hawyaw through His provedance it perplexed him when Christ said that, Nicodemus thought that He was speaking of the natural birth, hence Christ's response of the water and the spirit...Of course everyone must be born naturally, however to be made right with Hawyaw one must also be born spiritually...And no one that is not born from above will be capable of seeing the reign of Hawyaw...
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Old 08-08-2011, 11:53 AM
 
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Quote:
hence Christ's response of the water and the spirit
What do you believe water to be here ? It cannot mean natural birth, Christ is not speaking about natural things..
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Old 08-09-2011, 03:48 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savedbysovereigngrace View Post
What do you believe water to be here ? It cannot mean natural birth, Christ is not speaking about natural things..
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

I'd say in John 3:5 He is speaking of the natural birth, and seems to clarify the difference here in John 3:6...

Joh 3:6 That which is born of theflesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

I do not think He is speaking of Baptism here because of the response in :5 to Nicodemus' question in :4...When a womens water break it is time to give birth...a child is suspended in water until then...
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Old 08-09-2011, 04:19 AM
 
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richard

Quote:
I'd say in John 3:5 He is speaking of the natural birth,
Your wrong, Jesus is not speaking about natural birth, thats what nicodemus thought..
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Old 08-09-2011, 11:36 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savedbysovereigngrace View Post
What do you believe water to be here ? It cannot mean natural birth, Christ is not speaking about natural things..
It is the "water of life" surrounding our brain which contains our spiritual embryo until our death and rebirth as Spirit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

I'd say in John 3:5 He is speaking of the natural birth, and seems to clarify the difference here in John 3:6...

Joh 3:6 That which is born of theflesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

I do not think He is speaking of Baptism here because of the response in :5 to Nicodemus' question in :4...When a womens water break it is time to give birth...a child is suspended in water until then...
He is NOT talking about natural birth . . . that is the birth of the Flesh. The birth of the Spirit is Spirit . . . so when you start flitting about like the wind you can claim to be born of the Spirit . . . otherwise you are "born of God" (gennao=begotten/conceived) and your spiritual embryo is suspended in the "water of life " around the brain until your rebirth as Spirit upon your death.
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Old 08-09-2011, 11:37 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savedbysovereigngrace View Post
richard
Your wrong, Jesus is not speaking about natural birth, thats what nicodemus thought..
At least we agree on this.
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Old 08-09-2011, 02:45 PM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savedbysovereigngrace View Post
richard



Your wrong, Jesus is not speaking about natural birth, thats what nicodemus thought..
Whatever...
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Old 08-15-2011, 05:41 PM
 
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A Birth

A Birth is not the Creation or origination of Life, but the manifestation of life and is termed procreation. The natural man that a believer has [ as by nature children of wrath] is also called the old man Eph 4:22; Col 3:9, for this was created in Adam, but procreation by natural generation. That New Man Eph 4:24

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Also see New Creature 2 Cor 5:17

Immortal Life in a Believer [Eternal or Everlasting Life], or the inward man as Rom 7:22; 2 Cor 4:16, This Life was given us in Christ Jesus before the World began, and is made manifest by Spiritual Generation when Born of God, and presented with the Gospel, for the Gospel brings this immortal life to light or manifestation 2 Tim 1:9-10

Thats why Jesus says, those believing on Him during His Public Ministry, were having Eternal Life Jn 6:47

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Those believing on Him were born of Incorruptible Seed !
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