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None of that changes Gods declaration to do all he desires, in context, what God is going to do are the things that is OF him. Salvation is of God, not of Man, so God will absolutely save all mankind because that is what he has declared that he will do. That fact does not prevent man from making his life miserable in the meantime.
Of course there are people on the outside, some may wish to deny that and you can argue with them. There is also a hell, as far as the word goes, but that does not mean someone is doomed to be there for eternity.
Christians often use arguments that Jesus himself never used, Jesus never once referred to it being too late, or that there was now people burning in hell or that some human had ceased to exist for not believing correctly.
In fact Jesus asked the pharasees how they will avoid Gahenna and then later told them that they would not see him until they acknowledged him. He told them how they will get out. He did not say there was a point where it was too late, he gave them the answer.
Sure there is a lot of weeping and gnashing of teeth, I hear it from Christians all the time as they fight Gods promise to save all mankind, I hear Christians weep when their belief do not manifest what they have been led to believe, I see them gnash their teeth when it is revealed to them that God loves their enemies as much as he loves them becsuse they feel less special.
There will be people on the outside but scripture also declares that the door is open and let them come there is no too late because it is freely offered forever.
Re 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Yes, He did say there is a time when it is too late. When the owner of the house closes the door, it is too late. Not everyone wants to drink the water.
Yes, He did say there is a time when it is too late. When the owner of the house closes the door, it is too late. Not everyone wants to drink the water.
The duration of the door being closed is eonian.
Sooner or later everyone will want to drink the water because "God will have all mankind to be saved."
Yes, He did say there is a time when it is too late. When the owner of the house closes the door, it is too late. Not everyone wants to drink the water.
It certainly is too late for me to restore the relationships that I broke in the past, those doors are closed to anything within my power. It will have to be a work of God to bring about such things, however it will never be to late to open the door when Jesus knocks because he seeks until we are found.
The burden of proof is on you though, no one has to go back and read threads based on a claim you make. As it stands your claim is a lie, just because some do, does not mean we all do. You also fail to distinguish between those who are likely unitarian universalists and Christian universalist. A lot of other instances are probably taken out of context.
Most points I make are to indicate that when a person claims the bible is the words of God it is in an absolute sense that it also supports their specific doctrine. These people will then claim that if I disagree with them, then I must then not believe the word of God or believe the bible is the word of God,. it is mostly a ruse that obviously you have fell for in your haste to try to prove something in error that you cannot actually demonstrate.
I believe the bible is the word of God. You can find my arguments concerning Mike555's belief that you can only learn about God from the bible which I do not agree with. Disagreeing with that does not mean I reject God or the bible. I disagree with a lot of what you believe, that does not mean I reject God or the bible, but many of you try to contort peoples disagreement with a rejection of God and the bible and you all are the liars in that regaurd.
I do not think there are any uniterians here. There was a poll some time ago asking posters if they thought Bible is the word of God, and I do not believe a single UR voted YES. The poll is still open, so you can still vote YES, and be the first.
I do not think there are any uniterians here. There was a poll some time ago asking posters if they thought Bible is the word of God, and I do not believe a single UR voted YES. The poll is still open, so you can still vote YES, and be the first.
Funny, I just said in the post you quoted that I believe the bible to be the word of God, I do not need to vote in a forum poll, that cracks me up.
I do not think there are any uniterians here. There was a poll some time ago asking posters if they thought Bible is the word of God, and I do not believe a single UR voted YES. The poll is still open, so you can still vote YES, and be the first.
Too bad you don't seem to believe that the Bible is the word of God.
"God will have all mankind to be saved."
None of your "200 verses" can nullify that promise.
Last edited by rodgertutt; 07-14-2011 at 10:47 AM..
That is true, but as I see things, neither of them exist anymore anyway
Maybe you and brakelite should team up on the same thread.
No doubt the two of you would provide some interesting conversations with Finn and Twin over eternal torment versus ceasing to exist.
I would like to watch that debate.
Maybe you and brakelite should team up on the same thread.
No doubt the two of you would provide some interesting conversations with Finn and Twin over eternal torment versus ceasing to exist.
I would like to watch that debate.
That would be a good debate....however, when you mean ceaseing to exist..are you referring to annihilation post mortem? This is another concept I don't agree with anymore, as it pertains solely to corporate standing with God, in covenantal terms, and has nothing to do with the post mortem state. IOW, Israel, as a national and theocratic polity, was "annihilated" or ceased to exist in 70 AD. The cross began its transformation, or, those in that particular body, were called out of the old covenant, and brought into the new. Christianity took its place.
That would be a good debate....however, when you mean ceaseing to exist..are you referring to annihilation post mortem? This is another concept I don't agree with anymore, as it pertains solely to corporate standing with God, in covenantal terms, and has nothing to do with the post mortem state. IOW, Israel, as a national and theocratic polity, was "annihilated" or ceased to exist in 70 AD. The cross began its transformation, or, those in that particular body, were called out of the old covenant, and brought into the new. Christianity took its place.
New name, new song - Rev 5:9; 14:3
I chose the words "ceasing to exist" because I was aware of your stance from the contents of our previous discussion. I know you don't like to be called an ANer like brakelite is, but you both think that non-Christians will cease to exist, so you both do have that in common.
I think this is where we left off before
So we have Full Preterists/Covenant Creationism theology which says that people who do not hear about Jesus before they die, and even if they do hear about Him, if they are not “willing” to take one of the statistical average of five "chances" that sciotamicks mentioned, that they just might be given to start trusting Him as their Savior, then they will simply cease to exist when their physical body dies.
Do you still believe that?
VERSUS
Universal Reconciliation theology which says that sooner or later, because of what Christ accomplished by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross, God will save everyone from everything from which they need to be saved, including their stubborn will because "God will haveall mankind to be saved" (1Tim. 2:4).
I still believe that.
Last edited by rodgertutt; 07-14-2011 at 01:11 PM..
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God will have all mankind to be saved.
"God will have all mankind to be saved."
I think this is where we left off before
