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This all ties into the question in the OP that people don't want to answer.
(Props to Theophane for being honest and answering "yes" - the other two yes's were mistakes)
Can anyone answer these questions honestly?
Will the good news bring great joy to all the people?
Will Christ succeed in His mission to save all people?
In case there is any doubt about what Christ's mission was, here it is:
1 John 4:14 We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.
John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
The Father sent His Son to be the Savior of the world and to save the world! That is Christ's mission! Will He succeed?
I wonder why you apply 1st century writings about what Christ said in the 1st century to 1st century people to all people in all times. The context of all the words Jesus spoke is the 1st century... After all he did SPEAK them to actual people who weren't listening. All those are dead now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman
You underestimate God's ability. To save Saul/Paul all God had to do was show up with a loud boom and a flash of light.
Of course not all understand the good news right now. You don't even understand it. You think its good news that a few people are saved while the vast amount of humanity "perishes" (code word in your lingo for "burn in eternal hell"). But when everyone finally hears and understands the good news, then it will bring great joy to all people. Just like it says:
Luke 2:10 But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid. I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people.
Just like at Jesus' trial...can't get the accusations accounts the same. Let me help you Legoman:
Don't you know realize that angel's words are far less superior than Jesus' ? After all if the context of all the words Jesus spoke is the 1st century is for the 1 century people...why would angels words be any different.
So according to that theory .... all of the words the angels spoke were just for listening audience.... just a handful of shepherds. You need to learn context according to katjonjj.
Last edited by twin.spin; 07-06-2011 at 02:30 PM..
You don't understand John 3:16? You don't think it speaks about believers and unbelievers? Really?
Is that what you might call an automatic exclusion because its not mentioned? Obviously you aren't saying the word unbeliever is actually found in the verse...right?
Are we to assume that unbelievers are tortured endlessly because John 3:16 doesn't mention them? Or should we just read verse 17 and assume that those who don't believe are included in the world to be saved?
This all ties into the question in the OP that people don't want to answer.
(Props to Theophane for being honest and answering "yes" - the other two yes's were mistakes)
Can anyone answer these questions honestly?
Will the good news bring great joy to all the people? Will Christ succeed in His mission to save all people?
In case there is any doubt about what Christ's mission was, here it is:
1 John 4:14 We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.
John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
The Father sent His Son to be the Savior of the world and to save the world! That is Christ's mission! Will He succeed?
Your pal claims the angels "news of great joy" is for the listening audience...those shepherds apparently or no more than the 1 century.
Just like at Jesus' trial...can't get the accusations accounts the same. Let me help you Legoman:
Don't you know realize that angel's words are far less superior than Jesus' ? After all if the context of all the words Jesus spoke is the 1st century is for the 1 century people...why would angels words be any different.
So according to that theory .... all of the words the angels spoke were just for listening audience.... just a handful of shepherds. You need to learn context according to katjonjj.
What on earth are you trying to say twin.spin? What "accusations"?
Is Luke 2:10 not scripture to you? Is the scripture not the word of God to you?
Let me put it this way. GOD SAYS: the good news will bring great joy to all people. Apparently you disagree.
Your pal claims the angels "news of great joy" is for the listening audience...those shepherds apparently or no more than the 1 century.
My "pal"? I guess you are talking about Katjonjj? While yes she is a friend, I don't necessarily agree with everything she says. But I'm guessing you are taking her out of context.
Do you honestly think the good news is great joy for only the shepherd?
Or for only some people?
Or for only the people of the first century?
I don't think that and I don't think Kat does either.
Just like at Jesus' trial...can't get the accusations accounts the same. Let me help you Legoman:
Don't you know realize that angel's words are far less superior than Jesus' ? After all if the context of all the words Jesus spoke is the 1st century is for the 1 century people...why would angels words be any different.
So according to that theory .... all of the words the angels spoke were just for listening audience.... just a handful of shepherds. You need to learn context according to katjonjj.
You really have a way with words.... Although I wholeheartedly agree with Lego in some regards, I am not a Christian by any stretch of the imagination so there are things Lego and I will disagree on.
Contextually, the joy to all people would be those touched by Jesus' message.
On the other hand, "brood of vipers," for example was spoken directly to a living person(s). Not just for fundies to use arbitrarily for all those that disagree with them!!!
I'm surprised that people can read Shakespeare and not get confused by what parts apply to them yet with the bible they get overly confused about context??? Interesting.
That wasn't the argument. The point is God doesn't have to force anyone to be saved (which I guess I have to remind you was your argument). God does not need to revert to any kind of "force" as you are implying. God can simply change your viewpoint so that you will come to Him. Which is precisely what happened with Saul/Paul.
HAHA but you have no qualms about putting words in my mouth when you say God force's people into salvation or that it is "no biggie" if people can be saved later. LOL you are a tricky one Finn!
However when you make vague statements about "perishing" and that the good news doesn't bring joy to all, even though scripture is clear that it will, what am I to conclude?
Your theology is mixed up. Do you not believe people go to burn in eternal hell if they perish? You are being vague in your beliefs - it seems you don't want to confront the reality of them.
Don't let me put words in your mouth. Tell me with your own words.
Will the good news bring great joy to all the people? What happens to people when they perish?
The Bible says it will bring "good news of greatjoy to all people". It does not say it brings great joy to all people. I asked you before if you think all people live in perpetual joy, and the obvious answer is NO, and it is because they rejected the good news. Those who accept the good news are rewarded with joy. Comprende?
Luke 2:10 But the angel said to them, "Do not be afraid. I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people"
My "pal"? I guess you are talking about Katjonjj? While yes she is a friend, I don't necessarily agree with everything she says. But I'm guessing you are taking her out of context.
Do you honestly think the good news is great joy for only the shepherd?
Or for only some people?
Or for only the people of the first century?
I don't think that and I don't think Kat does either.
I think twin was trying to make a point, but it fell short.
context:
*
— n
1. the parts of a piece of writing, speech, etc, that precede and follow a word or passage and contribute to its full meaning: it is unfair to quote out of context
2. the conditions and circumstances that are relevant to an event, fact, etc
*
[C15: from Latin contextus *a putting together, from contexere *to interweave, from com- *together + texere *to weave, braid]
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