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View Poll Results: Will Christ fail to accomplish Gods desire to save all people?
Yes 13 23.21%
No 31 55.36%
I don't believe that Jesus is the word of God! 12 21.43%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 07-18-2011, 10:02 AM
 
7,374 posts, read 8,740,419 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Of course it is. Read Isaish 55, which says God will accomplish His desire. It explains his desire if for people to SEEK HIM, and CALL HIM, and TURN TO HIM. Of course you people decide to pick one verse from NT and marry it to another cherry picked verse from the OT to form the cornerstone of a brand new religion. It does not work that way.
Not a brand new religion, as what Roger and many others on this forum are proclaiming to be true concerning the eventual salvation and restoration of all people to god was the original gospel taught by the apostles and by the earliest Christians.


Universalism, the Prevailing Doctrine of the Christian Church During its First Five Hundred Years


Quote:
It has been explained some 10-20 times on this thread that Jesus never had such mission, so it is indeed a red herring argument. It is impossible to fail in a mission you were never assigned to.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

The above reasoning is called a logical fallacy ... Yes the verse above is very true, whoever believes in Christ will not perish but shall have life pertaining to the age.

However, the verse above does not state that a person must believe before they die in order to be saved, neither does it say that a person has to believe before they are judged in order to be saved. AS a matter of fact there is no place in the scriptures that state either of these things to be the case yet Finn assumes it to be true based on his indoctrination and his personal flawed inference from the scriptures.

The truth is that the scriptures teach that after all is said and done, God will subject all things to Christ and every tongue will swear allegiance to god and confess to god that Christ is lord, and so we can see that the verse which Finn quoted does in no way contradict the plan of God to save all people in Christ.


"I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance."


Quote:
An honest question would be to ask if Jesus will fail in His mission to save those who believe in Him, and the answer to that question would be NO, HE WILL NOT FAIL IN HIS MISSION.
Again, the bible clearly declares that Christ mission is to save the world, and to save sinners. The bible is also Clear that God will have all men to be saved, and that God is in fact the savior of all people.

Yet Finn like many others denies the truth of the bible and teaches a false Gospel that God is not the savior of all people, and that God will not have all people to be saved, and that Christ never intended to save the whole world and is not the savior of the whole world, but instead is only the savior of a select few.


Quote:
Even Isaish 55, which URs always use when trying to prove their point (by cherry picking one verse out of context), speaks about God's desire being to offer us a free gift, but we must come, seek, call and turn to Him in order to get it. It says nothing about forcing all people to accept the gift.
And again Finn rejects the gospel of Paul who taught that none seek after God, and that it is impossible for a natural man to perceive spiritual things, and that is why none seek after God, until the spirit of Christ renews them spiritually and drags them to God and gives them repentance and faith to believe. Again, the scriptures are clear that both faith and repentance are Gifts of the spirit of God, and fruits of the spirit indwelling us. One cannot repent or have faith until they are born again and quickened by the spirit.


Quote:
It is an INVITATION. God invites us to come, seek, call and turn to Him so He can offer us a free gift. God's desire if to INVITE us to free dinner. Read also the parable of the wedding, where the owner of the house INVITES everyone, but only a few came. Also, Jesus said only a few will choose the narrow gate, and that we must strive to enter through it. Everything in the Bible is in sync.
Again, the gospel of Paul repeats the words of the prophet Isaiah who wrote that none seek after God, not even one ... That is until God heals them of their hearts of stone and they are born again of the spirit and given repentance and faith by God.

The fact is the scriptures are clear that it is all the work of God in our lives that conforms us to the image of his son in every way, so that all the glory is his. It is all his gift and his mercy and has nothing to do with us, as we are all like clay in his hands. And one day everyone will come to a full knowledge of the truth and repent and confess Christ is lord and swear allegiance to God.

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 07-18-2011 at 10:11 AM..

 
Old 07-18-2011, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,303 posts, read 6,420,376 times
Reputation: 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
Are you saying you are GOD?

I didn't get that at all from pcamps' post...

Quote:
I don't recall where GOD opened belief up for questions and if he did, will other men have the answers?
That's the whole point, to search out our faith...by searching, this is a journey of questions and answers...He works through us ..seeking Him diligently...and yes other men, who are followers of Christ, will have the answers, some may not, it all depends on your personal walk with Him. And ye shall seek me, and find [me], when ye shall search for me with all your heart. The body is the body, and Christ is in it, one way or another...where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them...How does this have anything to do with "belief" as you interpret it? Also, you said men asking men what God will do....do you not read the Bible? I noticed you like Ron Paul a little...from one Libertarian to another possible....what do you believe the "scripture" say He will do, that is what we are talking about isn't it now, not what you imply without any possible due diligence in it?
 
Old 07-18-2011, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,397,651 times
Reputation: 259
Exclamation That's what God will successfully accomplish

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Read Isaish 55, which says God will accomplish His desire. It explains his desire if for people to SEEK HIM, and CALL HIM, and TURN TO HIM.
Exactly! That's what God will successfully accomplish. He will successfully motivate everyone to seek Him, call on Him, and turn to Him. Until then, we all will remain in the condition of Romans 3:10-18.

The timing will vary from person to person, but it will be every bit as effective as it was for Lydia, Saul of Tarsus, and Nebuchadnezzar.

Neither will God's saving ability and determination to save everyone be hampered by physical death, for God will have all men to be saved.
 
Old 07-18-2011, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
10,604 posts, read 11,637,396 times
Reputation: 7005
Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
ptsum ....My view is that there is only one creator (God) ..... not lots of Gods ie a christian one and a greek one etc it is what/how people think about God that is different in each culture

I believe that God has shown different peoples different things at different times and places .....

Your view of god is probably one of the most reasonable views, the idea that there is but one god by many different names is not a new idea but it is one that the majority of Christians and Muslims cannot accept. My people(the Native Americans) believe that the Creator has a different name for each of the different nations and cultures but in the end we believe there is but one Creator.osay
 
Old 07-18-2011, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Redding, Ca
1,248 posts, read 1,254,818 times
Reputation: 125
sciotamicks

Great post yet, what is not being seen is why God loves all, not just Israel, but all as one.

1st. By design God had to select a group to carry His laws of which the nation of Israel was selected.

2nd. By Israel carrying the mantle of obeying God's laws, the responsibility to them was totally theirs.
Again by design, God saw to it that none of His laws could be honored by Israel to perfection, thus falling short.

3rd. By Israel falling short and of Israel having the only revelation of the true God within the nation only meant that the rest of the world was in the same boat: recognized or not.

4th. By design, evidenced by the tree of life being withheld from Adam, and latter re-introduced to mankind, the designed works of God played out in the form of a single body, Jesus as a ransom for the whole lot.

5th. Abraham being a picture of God, Issac being a picture of the whole of humanity, is required by design to offer up Isaac to the alter of death.
Note: To understand that, one needs to see the resultant from the creation of the first set of parents as gods as described in the following verse: Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Number five above is the reason for the separation/death of humanity as a picture of Isaac being the object of the sacrifice. Remember, that humanity to God is as like it's first born child and is required by design to sacrifice it.....or?

6th. The Ram. Ref; Gen 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

And: Gen 22:13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.

The picture is clear, Isaac (Humanity) was spared while the Ram (Jesus) was destroyed as a body in Ransom for Isaac.

Six days God the Father created all that and set in motion and rested the 7th.

Enter: Jesus. Jesus commissioned (By prophecy) to fulfill all that the Father created by dotting all the I's and crossing all the T's to perfection, thus re-creates the spirit of mankind anew, as one for the many.

Jesus fulfilled all that was predicted of Him, to the day, in this case termed "In that day", and offered Himself as the ransom for the whole lot of humanity in reconciling the world back to God.

Humanity, was not at fault for it's existence, thus could of itself effect nothing in the spiritual realm of God, save only what was here on earth.

Good behavior or bad behavior have absolutely nothing to do with our being reconciled back to God. That is the work of God.

The responsibility for good or bad behavior rests solely on us as individual gods and whatever trespasses we commit, are due and payable in the flesh.

The wages of sin, meaning the works of trespassing, are works done in the flesh thus required by the flesh.

Death then, being the end of works, thus the end of trespasses thus the end of all wages.

After that, we all belong to Jesus.

If we can keep that in mind, understanding of many of the difficult passages, stories can be understood.

Blessings, AJ
 
Old 07-18-2011, 11:25 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 12,458,554 times
Reputation: 1319
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
Exactly! That's what God will successfully accomplish. He will successfully motivate everyone to seek Him, call on Him, and turn to Him. Until then, we all will remain in the condition of Romans 3:10-18.

The timing will vary from person to person, but it will be every bit as effective as it was for Lydia, Saul of Tarsus, and Nebuchadnezzar.

Neither will God's saving ability and determination to save everyone be hampered by physical death, for God will have all men to be saved.
That summarization breaks other truths from scriptures. You're trying to make God's word say in effect:

All humanity must be in the light of the sun because where I'm standing all are in the light. Point being even though all people enjoy the benefits of the sun (day or night) not "all" are in the light of the sun, only a few are.

Same with God, all people enjoy the benefit of God's love ( Jesus paid the sins for all) ... however only few those who are in the light of his Son will be given the right to be called "Sons of God".

To have that distinction of that title "Sons of God".... requires that faith must be present while alive, it's not optional or eventually.
 
Old 07-18-2011, 11:58 AM
 
63 posts, read 101,110 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
That summarization breaks other truths from scriptures. You're trying to make God's word say in effect:

All humanity must be in the light of the sun because where I'm standing all are in the light. Point being even though all people enjoy the benefits of the sun (day or night) not "all" are in the light of the sun, only a few are.

Same with God, all people enjoy the benefit of God's love ( Jesus paid the sins for all) ... however only few those who are in the light of his Son will be given the right to be called "Sons of God".

To have that distinction of that title "Sons of God".... requires that faith must be present while alive, it's not optional or eventually.
Not quite. You will note that all beings will ultimately bow in worship in the name of Jesus. Such worship is not by perfunctory genuflections, not forced, but in absolute union with His Name!

Phil. 2:10,11

"It is because of this also that God has so highly exalted Him, and has conferred on Him the Name which is supreme above every other name, In order that in the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, of beings in the highest heavens, of those on the earth, and of those in the underworld, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

kavmptw = bow=

Used of worshippers.

To bow one's self.

Confess= ejxomologevw

Confess/ profess.

A. To acknowledge openly and joyfully.

B. To celebrate/ to give praise to.

Exomologeo Rooted In oJmologevw

oJmologevw=

To confess/ declare.

A. To profess/ declare openly and freely.

B. To profess one's self the worshipper of one.

C. To praise and celebrate.
 
Old 07-18-2011, 12:10 PM
 
6,657 posts, read 8,108,103 times
Reputation: 751
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockhead View Post
Not quite. You will note that all beings will ultimately bow in worship in the name of Jesus. Such worship is not by perfunctory genuflections, not forced, but in absolute union with His Name!

Phil. 2:10,11

"It is because of this also that God has so highly exalted Him, and has conferred on Him the Name which is supreme above every other name, In order that in the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, of beings in the highest heavens, of those on the earth, and of those in the underworld, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

kavmptw = bow=

Used of worshippers.

To bow one's self.

Confess= ejxomologevw

Confess/ profess.

A. To acknowledge openly and joyfully.

B. To celebrate/ to give praise to.

Exomologeo Rooted In oJmologevw

oJmologevw=

To confess/ declare.

A. To profess/ declare openly and freely.

B. To profess one's self the worshipper of one.

C. To praise and celebrate.
God doesn't want to force anyone to be saved, but on the other hand He forces everyone to bow before Him...
 
Old 07-18-2011, 12:11 PM
 
63 posts, read 101,110 times
Reputation: 50
Every created thing (pan ktisma)

Every creature in a still wider antiphonal circle beyond the circle of angels (from ktizw, for which see 1 Timothy 4:4; James 1:18), from all the four great fields of life (in heaven, upon the earth, under the earth as in verse 3, with on the sea epi thv talasshv added).

No created thing is left out. This universal chorus of praise to Christ from all created life reminds one of the profound mystical passage in Romans 8:20-22 concerning the sympathetic agony of creation (ktisiv) in hope of freedom from the bondage of corruption.

If the trail of the serpent is on all creation, it will be ultimately thrown off.

Robertsons N. T. Word Pictures
 
Old 07-18-2011, 12:14 PM
 
63 posts, read 101,110 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
God doesn't want to force anyone to be saved, but on the other hand He forces everyone to bow before Him...
Sure Lego, and in thankful celebration!
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