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Moose, if you are so convinced there is no God. Why do you spend so much time on the "Religion Forum"?
Of course there is a God, look at all the marvelous things around you. Isn't that proof enough. Sure the bible is a bit "WHACKED" but don't let it convince you that there is no God.
Moose, if you are so convinced there is no God. Why do you spend so much time on the "Religion Forum"?
Of course there is a God, look at all the marvelous things around you. Isn't that proof enough. Sure the bible is a bit "WHACKED" but don't let it convince you that there is no God.
I had assumed the religion forum was for all religions as well as debating the existence of god, not just an advocacy of faith. Maybe I was mistaken.
And I have spent plenty of time on religion but I am as sure about the non existence of god as believers are of his/her existence. No doubt in my mind at all.
Atheism is the only way to think for me.
I had assumed the religion forum was for all religions as well as debating the existence of god, not just an advocacy of faith. Maybe I was mistaken.
And I have spent plenty of time on religion but I am as sure about the non existence of god as believers are of his/her existence. No doubt in my mind at all.
Atheism is the only way to think for me.
"When you are deluded and full of doubt, even a thousand books of scripture are not enough. When you have realized understanding; even one word is too much." --Fen. Yang.
As for me, my friend, it is not as a child that I believe and confess Jesus Christ. My hosanna is born of a furnace of doubt.
Moose, if you are so convinced there is no God. Why do you spend so much time on the "Religion Forum"?
I think she does for the exact same reason I do. I don't understand why it would seem so odd for an atheist to spend time on a "Religion Forum." Speaking for myself here, I can say that I have had a life long interest in "all things religion." --I spent alot of time in school studying comparative religions and philosophy. The more one acquires by way of knowledge in one area seems to lend itself to being inquisitive in other areas as well. Personally, I am fascinated by what Christian's believe versus Hindu's believe, versus Buddhis's believe, versus Toaist's believe, ETC! Just as there are so many different types of philosophical thought, so too, the same exists in the study of the sacred and what and how people believe.
I think it has been an incredibly positive experience for me to be exposed to what other people on this forum believe. I am fascinated by those things that I cannot always understand, and that "not knowing" inspires and motivates me to want to understand. In the instances where I am truly unable to understand, I am comfortable with that, as I also know that every single one of us on this forum share in certain fundamental commonalities.
Atheists should frequent religion forums, in my opinion. We live in such a "global" world today, where I can email someone on the other side of the world instantaneously. How remarkable is that, and yet, we seemingly cannot understand one another because of religious beliefs? --That is something I simply cannot accept. Call me niave, but I suspect that no matter how extreme our differences, there is, (if one looks deep enough,) a commonality to all of us.
I apologize to Kaykay for "hijacking" or going off topic, but I wanted to honestly honor and address Throx's question. Our disbelief does not negate, dishonor, or in any way interfere with the belief of those who do believe. That only happens, I think, when we stop desiring to understand those differences between us; when we only focus on those stereotypes towards others that we all seemingly possess.
And for all those out there who are believers, I thank you for both enlightening me in my desire to know/understand, along with your patience with me along the way towards that...
I think she does for the exact same reason I do. I don't understand why it would seem so odd for an atheist to spend time on a "Religion Forum." Speaking for myself here, I can say that I have had a life long interest in "all things religion." --I spent alot of time in school studying comparative religions and philosophy. The more one acquires by way of knowledge in one area seems to lend itself to being inquisitive in other areas as well. Personally, I am fascinated by what Christian's believe versus Hindu's believe, versus Buddhis's believe, versus Toaist's believe, ETC! Just as there are so many different types of philosophical thought, so too, the same exists in the study of the sacred and what and how people believe.
I think it has been an incredibly positive experience for me to be exposed to what other people on this forum believe. I am fascinated by those things that I cannot always understand, and that "not knowing" inspires and motivates me to want to understand. In the instances where I am truly unable to understand, I am comfortable with that, as I also know that every single one of us on this forum share in certain fundamental commonalities.
Atheists should frequent religion forums, in my opinion. We live in such a "global" world today, where I can email someone on the other side of the world instantaneously. How remarkable is that, and yet, we seemingly cannot understand one another because of religious beliefs? --That is something I simply cannot accept. Call me niave, but I suspect that no matter how extreme our differences, there is, (if one looks deep enough,) a commonality to all of us.
I apologize to Kaykay for "hijacking" or going off topic, but I wanted to honestly honor and address Throx's question. Our disbelief does not negate, dishonor, or in any way interfere with the belief of those who do believe. That only happens, I think, when we stop desiring to understand those differences between us; when we only focus on those stereotypes towards others that we all seemingly possess.
And for all those out there who are believers, I thank you for both enlightening me in my desire to know/understand, along with your patience with me along the way towards that...
Take gentle care
Oh June, I just LOVE your posts. Thoughtful, insightful, and always...gentle. If your posts are any indication, you are a great person, and sage soul.
How do you "know" there is a god ? I am not trying to flame anyone but I spent years in churches, and searching for god , praying to him/her and I never found him/her. I thought about it, researched various religions, read about it and spent a lot of time with an open mind with genuine believers. Nothing. At all. Ever. Not a twinge in my "soul", not a stirring , nothing. In a way I admire people who have faith because they seem able to believe without truly questioning and it seems a much easier way to live your life.
I question everything, am curious about everything and always want proof and answers to everything.
So how have you experienced god ? Is it just a feeling ? What certainty do you have ? I am just curious. Do you believe god would have found you if you had been raised in a completely different environment with different life-experiences ? Do you ever doubt god's existence and if you do have a crisis of faith how do you resolve it ?
Religion to me is fascinating because it is one of mankind's most primal urge to believe in something and yet god to me is just something we created to reassure ourselves about not being so insignificant in a vast universe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooseketeer
Mankind is terrified of what it does not understand such as death. People used to worship the Sun and Moon ( some still do) because they could not really understand its working and needed to find a way to explain its awesome power as well as way to appease whatever deities were "pulling the strings" in their minds. We are indeed an arrogant specie and yet one which lives in fear and lack of understanding of foreigners, immigrants, other races, faiths, sexual orientation and those feelings can be appeased by religion. It also helps to explain a lot of our innate prejudices and things we do not quite comprehend.
Regarding sin, I am an atheist and don't particularly feel sinful ! I do not see how being a Christian would make me a better person. I try my very best every day and that is the best I can do. I am not sure how faith has anything to do with morals. I don't smoke, don't take drugs, don't drink, am not promiscuous, do not hurt people on purpose, try to be thoughtful, tolerant, open minded and kind to others, try to shop as ethically as possible and generally be a good human being. I am very much flawed but so are believers. All I can do is try my very best and be able to sleep at night knowing I have done things with good intentions and trying to be a responsible citizen of this earth.
You do lead a very good life. Many people don't both believers and non-believers. Could it be perhaps that you have not gotten your answers for a reason such as timing? God has a different time than we do, and oftentimes He allows us to experience things which makes us stronger and matures us before He comes into the picture.
I understand where you are coming from, you describe my dh, except he does smoke. He is a very good person, always willing to help when he is needed and is honest and very dependable and looked upon in a very good way by our peers, yet he too, cannot seem to find God. I have told him what I just told you. I can't know the answers and I am afraid mere humans cannot fathom a reason, but as a believer, I pray for my dh and allow God to work in his life. I did this for my oldest son, and honestly, God got his attention and he now knows God. What many took as a bad thing, I took as a good thing and it turned out to be the best my son had encountered.
I wish you would not give up too soon, you never know what tomorrow has in store for you. I also hope you have a good friend or sig. other who keeps you in their prayers. Believe me, I am not trying to be offensive, this is coming from my heart as it has struck close to me with similiar situation, I genuinally care and wanted you to know that.
I had assumed the religion forum was for all religions as well as debating the existence of god, not just an advocacy of faith. Maybe I was mistaken.
And I have spent plenty of time on religion but I am as sure about the non existence of god as believers are of his/her existence. No doubt in my mind at all.
Atheism is the only way to think for me.
I shouldn't have worded quite like that, and more power to you in your atheistic views. I guess I meant to point out that maybe atheists who like the subject of religion, could have a spark of belief in it?
I shouldn't have worded quite like that, and more power to you in your atheistic views. I guess I meant to point out that maybe atheists who like the subject of religion, could have a spark of belief in it?
Another thing I notice is that (for some athiests) so much anger is directed towards this Being they don't believe in.
How do you "know" there is a god ? I am not trying to flame anyone but I spent years in churches, and searching for god , praying to him/her and I never found him/her. I thought about it, researched various religions, read about it and spent a lot of time with an open mind with genuine believers. Nothing. At all. Ever. Not a twinge in my "soul", not a stirring , nothing. In a way I admire people who have faith because they seem able to believe without truly questioning and it seems a much easier way to live your life.
I question everything, am curious about everything and always want proof and answers to everything.
So how have you experienced god ? Is it just a feeling ? What certainty do you have ? I am just curious. Do you believe god would have found you if you had been raised in a completely different environment with different life-experiences ? Do you ever doubt god's existence and if you do have a crisis of faith how do you resolve it ?
Religion to me is fascinating because it is one of mankind's most primal urge to believe in something and yet god to me is just something we created to reassure ourselves about not being so insignificant in a vast universe.
Your question is bigger than I can address here in one post I have allot of of books that present evidence that God is real. Granted few of the arguments stand up well by themselves, but if you add just some of them together you can build a very nice case.
One part of my belief rest on the case for Christ.
First no serious scholar denies that Jesus was a real person of history, we have examples of non-biblical historians mentioning Jesus.
We know from extra biblical historians that first century Christians were so convinced that Christ had been resurrected that they were willing to die rather that deny him.
We know that 10 of the first disciples (people who cowardly ran away from Jesus the night before his death) Were willing to die for him. One of the disciples spent many years in prison.
These people knew Christ, if Christ was resurrected these people would have been the ones to know. Does it make sense that people who ran away from Christ in order to stay out of trouble when he was alive, would suddenly be willing to die for him after they knew he had already died? No
But if they knew that Christ did not stay dead it would make perfect sense.
If you truly want to know the evidence that God is real may I suggest
that you get the book The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict
by Josh McDowell
There are many other books out there but that one is the most scholarly ones I have read.
I have empathy with you when it comes to bad Churches. I can't tell you half of my bad experiences. I finally had to come to a point where I realized that Christianity isn't about the people who claim to be Christian it is about Christ, please don't judge how authentic Christ is by the authenticity of the people who say they follow him.
As to how I was raised My step-father was an atheist, and my real mother said she was a Christian, but she only used God's name in vain.
My salvation came completely independent of my raising. I was already a full grown adult with a husband and child by the time I became a Christian. BTW My husband is an atheist, so he tried to keep me from becoming a Christian. He even invited a self proclaimed Satanist over here as an anti-witness to my faith. It did not work, they guy tried really hard but his case against Christ wasn't very good.
Do I have weak spots in my faith? Sometimes, but I am often so busy studying the ever growing body of evidence that points to the God of the Bible the weak points are always mild and short.
There is allot more I could say but I need to spend some time with my family.
Have a great night! Write me back if you want to know more.
How do you "know" there is a god ? I am not trying to flame anyone but I spent years in churches, and searching for god , praying to him/her and I never found him/her. I thought about it, researched various religions, read about it and spent a lot of time with an open mind with genuine believers. Nothing. At all. Ever. Not a twinge in my "soul", not a stirring , nothing. In a way I admire people who have faith because they seem able to believe without truly questioning and it seems a much easier way to live your life.
I question everything, am curious about everything and always want proof and answers to everything.
So how have you experienced god ? Is it just a feeling ? What certainty do you have ? I am just curious. Do you believe god would have found you if you had been raised in a completely different environment with different life-experiences ? Do you ever doubt god's existence and if you do have a crisis of faith how do you resolve it ?
Religion to me is fascinating because it is one of mankind's most primal urge to believe in something and yet god to me is just something we created to reassure ourselves about not being so insignificant in a vast universe.
Hello Mooseketeer, at present I'm reading A Saint Among Savages by Rosemary Kingsland, it about the tribe Wagrani (Auca) Equador, thought at the time the book was written(1979) to be among the very last to be influenced by the rest of us.
The Wagrani did not have a religion.
A very good read tells a lot about us through knowing an untouched tribe (untill we (the civilised) wanted the oil in the jungle when we sent in the innocent missionaries as precursors as usual).
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My hosanna is born of a furnace of doubt. 
