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Old 07-13-2011, 09:56 AM
 
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Faith without works and proof is false faith.

Scriptures, on the issue of works, contradict each other.

Some scriptures and Christian sects push the notion that faith alone in God is all that is required to earn heaven.
Some scriptures indicate that without works, living the theology and applying it to reality, that whatever faith we claim to have is useless and that those souls are lost.

The notion of being part of a community where individuals looked out for each other and shared whatever it had was the key and the only reason Christianity became the religion that it is today. I mean this in the sense or size only. In reality, Christianity no longer bases itís theology and being saved on works.

Perhaps this is why the Church is so fragmented today and losing the battle for the hearts and minds of the population.

People usually do what they see as profitable in one way or another for themselves. Today, looking at Christianity, from inside or outside, the population does not see a profit in remaining in or joining Christianity due to this notion that faith is all that is required.

Without works, will Christianity die?
Do you have to live your faith or is faith without works and good deeds good enough?

What was it that James told Peter.
Demons have faith in God and it is likely stronger than manís faith because they know for certain of Godís reality yet it does them no good. Faith, belief that is not based on proof, is thus useless.

Regards
DL
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Old 07-13-2011, 11:58 AM
 
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Aisi, God/Love in us does all the work, transforming us and pouring through us to others. Recognize that; have faith in that. If "Christianity -- as we know it -- dies", trust that God/Love never ends. It's that simple.
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Old 07-13-2011, 12:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Aisi, God/Love in us does all the work, transforming us and pouring through us to others. Recognize that; have faith in that. If "Christianity -- as we know it -- dies", trust that God/Love never ends. It's that simple.
Sure but then hate never ends either.

Regards
DL
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Old 07-13-2011, 12:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
Sure but then hate never ends either.

Regards
DL
Since we're both accepting that the Biblical axiom that love never ends/fails is true, are you also basing your belief/conclusion that hate never ends on the Bible as well or on something else?

From personal experience, I don't find it to be true that hate never ends.... where love has healed me from harboring that emotion towards someone, hate definitely has come to an end.
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Old 07-13-2011, 01:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Since we're both accepting that the Biblical axiom that love never ends/fails is true, are you also basing your belief/conclusion that hate never ends on the Bible as well or on something else?

From personal experience, I don't find it to be true that hate never ends.... where love has healed me from harboring that emotion towards someone, hate definitely has come to an end.
I do not attribute anything to the Bible. Way too much forgery and contradictions within it's pages. Duality was not invented by religion as far as I know.

FYPOV, when your God shows you what love is, he automatically is showing you what hate is.

The tree of knowledge of good and evil is a good example of this duality.
You might note that there is one tree encompassing both notions.
God did not make a tree of good and a seperate tree of evil so if he is to get rid of evil, something he likes to create, then he would also have to get rid of good.

God creates for a reason and you just do not know the reason and you want him to destroy what he created. Tsk tsk.

Regards
DL
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Old 07-13-2011, 01:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
I do not attribute anything to the Bible. Way too much forgery and contradictions within it's pages. Duality was not invented by religion as far as I know.

FYPOV, when your God shows you what love is, he automatically is showing you what hate is.

The tree of knowledge of good and evil is a good example of this duality.
You might note that there is one tree encompassing both notions.
God did not make a tree of good and a seperate tree of evil so if he is to get rid of evil, something he likes to create, then he would also have to get rid of good.

God creates for a reason and you just do not know the reason and you want him to destroy what he created. Tsk tsk.

Regards
DL
You could be right and it's a question I've often pondered. It is, in part, why I am so very agnostic about the idea of an eternal afterlife. I cannot wrap my head around the idea that we can exist withOUT the potential for evil, but I also cannot imagine continuing to exist for eternity with the suffering that evil brings.

Since we're in a Christian forum, however, I'm working with the confines of that school of thought, and the Bible which informs it. From that Bible, I can only come to the conclusion that it proclaims that hate will indeed come to an end, through Love conquering it.
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Old 07-13-2011, 01:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
You could be right and it's a question I've often pondered. It is, in part, why I am so very agnostic about the idea of an eternal afterlife. I cannot wrap my head around the idea that we can exist withOUT the potential for evil, but I also cannot imagine continuing to exist for eternity with the suffering that evil brings.

Since we're in a Christian forum, however, I'm working with the confines of that school of thought, and the Bible which informs it. From that Bible, I can only come to the conclusion that it proclaims that hate will indeed come to an end, through Love conquering it.
You have to take care in how you read what the Bible says.

Romans 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

This sounds quite good right?

The think is, God used genocide against mankind to overcome the evil and that would mean that genocide is a good and moral thing to do.

Regards
DL
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Old 07-13-2011, 01:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
You have to take care in how you read what the Bible says.

Romans 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

This sounds quite good right?

The think is, God used genocide against mankind to overcome the evil and that would mean that genocide is a good and moral thing to do.

Regards
DL
If you are referring to the OT Israelites attributing their treatment of other people groups to the command of their God, I would agree that it does not seem to be in line with the nature of the God of Love which the Christ revealed, according to the NT. "Lying scribes" comes to mind.
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Old 07-13-2011, 02:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
If you are referring to the OT Israelites attributing their treatment of other people groups to the command of their God, I would agree that it does not seem to be in line with the nature of the God of Love which the Christ revealed, according to the NT. "Lying scribes" comes to mind.
Partly that for sure but it goes further.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x84m5k_2007doc-zone-pagan-christ-1-of-3_news

Regards
DL
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Old 07-13-2011, 02:04 PM
 
15,026 posts, read 7,543,851 times
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Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
Partly that for sure but it goes further.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x84m5k_2007doc-zone-pagan-christ-1-of-3_news

Regards
DL
My itty bitty computer has a difficult time downloading videos, but the description of the video seems to indicate it's about whether or not Christianity/Jesus is a fabrication evolved from other ancient religions... I'm curious in what way you see that as relevant to your o.p. about faith/works?
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