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We are the arbitor of our own destiny in regards to salvation, but that doesn't make us our own redeemer. That's still done by Christ.
Any other doctrine IS satanic!
Of course it makes us our own redeemer, based upon the assertion, if we do not make the right choice we are not redeemed.
If we make the right choice we ARE REDEEMED. According to that teaching God plays no role in that choice, it is entirely up to you. If it is UP TO YOU. then it is UP TO YOU.
He also told the rich man he had to give away all his riches to be saved.. That too is a requirement then?
No, that was a means Christ used to make that man confront his unwillingness to surrender. It forced him to chose between his earthly wealth and the wealth of eternal life.
It's a choice we all must make, in one form or another. Who WILL rule your life? Christ, or something else.
"16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:"
and Jesus told Saul who he was persecuting when he was throwing people in prison for the gospel's sake:
"4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: [it is] hard for thee to kick against the pricks."
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit
A doctrine which says everyone will be saved, even against their wishes, is a false doctrine. There is NO salvation outside of a deliberate, conscious decision to believe in Christ Jesus.
No, it is a false doctrine to believe that we can obtain salvation through our carnal nature. Man is incapable of saving himself. Only those whom God quickens will come forth from the tombs.
"As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."
Of course it makes us our own redeemer, based upon the assertion, if we do not make the right choice we are not redeemed.
If we make the right choice we ARE REDEEMED. According to that teaching God plays no role in that choice, it is entirely up to you. If it is UP TO YOU. then it is UP TO YOU.
That's like saying I'm what runs my car because I put gas into the tank. The car won't go until I do that, but that doesn't make me the source of it's power, does it?
"16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:"
and Jesus told Saul who he was persecuting when he was throwing people in prison for the gospel's sake:
"4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: [it is] hard for thee to kick against the pricks."
Where was Jesus when the Spirit came a Pentacost? And, how did He get there?
Any gift must be accepted to be a gift. Why do you think the gift of salvation through the shed blood of Christ would be any different?
If you give your child a toy and he tosses it aside and never plays with it (Rejecting your gift) of what value is it to the child?
If you have a debt to pay, and I pay it for you without your knowledge, there's very little to "accept," except the facts! When you discover your debt has been paid, that's cause for rejoicing. And when man is given the gift of faith, he rejoices, because he is set free.
Where was Jesus when the Spirit came a Pentacost? And, how did He get there?
Jesus is now Spirit. "Christ" means anointing, and that anointing was supernaturally placed within mankind at Calvary. What Jesus was is what we will all become. There will be One Body, One faith, One baptism (in the Spirit).
As we have borne the earthly (Adam nature), so too we shall all bear the heavenly nature (Christ).
That's like saying I'm what runs my car because I put gas into the tank. The car won't go until I do that, but that doesn't make me the source of it's power, does it?
Not at all, Gods power is meaningless to a person if they do not choose to use it according to the assertion.
The fuel, the car, all meaninless no matter how fast it is or the horsepower that is available, it is up to you to use it so what the car does for you is only empowered by your choices.
You are your redeemer if you must choose the path to redemption.
Any gift must be accepted to be a gift. Why do you think the gift of salvation through the shed blood of Christ would be any different?
If you give your child a toy and he tosses it aside and never plays with it (Rejecting your gift) of what value is it to the child?
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit
That's like saying I'm what runs my car because I put gas into the tank. The car won't go until I do that, but that doesn't make me the source of it's power, does it?
We're not talking about a living child or a living man accepting or doing anything, we're talking about being SAVED. The Bible makes it clear that people are DEAD in their sin. Dead people don't DO anything. They can only lie there and either be resuscitated or not. Either God breathes life into us and it revives us, which causes us to repent, seek and ask; or we'd all still be dead on the table.
If someone "beleives in their heart" and then also "confesses with their mouth", that's just like the EKG machine showing a heart beat... It's the proof that there is life. It's not what causes the spiritual heart to beat.
Are you seriously suggesting that people are saved without doing anything? No repentance? No professing Christ? No acceptance of His free gift?
That's not scriptural! It's a false doctrine which leads people to think they don't have to do anything and God will just sort of forgive whatever they've done without them even having to be sorry for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
God doesn't "sort of" do anything, much less "sort of forgive". Having one's eyes open to that complete forgiveness -- to God's unconditional love -- is a work of God's Spirit, and the Spirit within a person brings them to repentence, to asking & seeking. Salvation is the work of God and is not dependent on people -- that's why I trust it.
"Father forgive them, for they know not what they do."
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